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Nails84

Am I too late to the party?

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Nails84

Hi All,

 

I owned a couple of 205's back in the early 2000's, a 1.6 GTI which I bought for 500 quid, loved it so much after 6 months I had to have the 1.9 so bought a mint one from Just GTI's for £3000. I sold that a couple of years later for an MR2 Turbo, big mistake. 

 

Anyway, nostalgia has me very interested in owning a 1.9 GTI again, I would also consider MI-16 & GTI6 conversions. My main question is, am I too late? I have kept an eye on the 205 market and prices are a bit all over the place so it is hard to know for sure what I would need to spend to get a good one, also, I am not mechanically inclined, in that I am useless and I would only risk carrying out the most basic of tasks. Is it wise to own a 205 in this case? 

 

The car would be garaged and only driven on dry weekends etc. 

 

My budget is about £10k, I don't want to buy one for £10k and then have to spend thousands on paint and engine rebuilds. 

 

Any thoughts/comments welcome.


Thanks

Mike

 

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dcc

You will easily find a clean 205 for half that budget. I know theres a chap called michael sealy selling a very clean red 205 with gti6 conversion, that was circa 5500.

 

Personally id avoid the mi16 in standard trim as its approaching 30+ years old. The management is generally tired and the alloy blocks are starting to corrode and fatigue, a costly exercise to remedy.

 

The iron block gti6 is solid with far less to go wrong when compared to the mi16. The trade off is an extra 20kgs (roughly), though better mpg and power.

 

Theres a buyers guide on here somewhere, if be checkig for low miles, rust, rear axle rebuild, suspension age and type, new brakes, everything ingeneral good order and ofcohrse a clean interior. The driver seats are fairly tatty these days.

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Anthony

As Dan has said really - £5k should still buy a good example, £10k should buy an exceptionally good one.  Be warned that there is a lot of vastly-overpriced rubbish out so be fussy.

 

With regards running one if you're not particularly mechanically minded - it shouldn't be an issue at all providing you buy a well cared for example in the first place and you proactively keep on top of maintenance.  A good "old school" garage helps considerably.

 

In terms of 16v converted cars, the biggest thing is whether the conversion has been done to a good standard, as there's loads out there with truly awful conversions.  I personally think that 205 Mi16's are wonderful when they're in fine fettle, but Dan's comments about them getting long in the tooth now is valid and issues with wiring looms, throttle bodies, thermostat housing and blocks are getting more common, with replacement parts getting harder to obtain.

 

Unlike the early 2000's, a converted car no longer commands a premium as the market is in original unmolested cars these days.

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GLPoomobile
1 hour ago, dcc said:

Personally id avoid the mi16 in standard trim as its approaching 30+ years old. The management is generally tired and the alloy blocks are starting to corrode and fatigue, a costly exercise to remedy.

 

The iron block gti6 is solid with far less to go wrong when compared to the mi16. The trade off is an extra 20kgs (roughly), though better mpg and power.

That's a fair point, but is it not a bit like saying avoid a standard 8v as well? I mean they are also alloy block with archaic management. Or do the 8v not suffer corrosion to the same extent?

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jackherer

The worn throttle bodies and disintegrating thermostat housings aren't really problems on 8vs. Other than those issues I agree mi16s are basically the same as 8vs.

 

If you keep the antifreeze mix strong and change it reasonably regularly corrosion shouldn't be an issue on either but the chances of that happening for the last 30 years is pretty low I agree.

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Tom Fenton

Do the stat housings commonly fall to bits on the Mi's then? Not something I've had a problem with.

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jackherer

I've got 6 or 7 here that are unusable!

 

It's the steel pipes that corrode against the aluminium housing, strong anti freeze would probably help this too.

 

When I was building my 205 and my mates I couldn't find any that were usable, they could probably be repaired but I ended up getting two CNC housings from BakerBM.

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Nails84

Thanks for the replies all. 

 

There are a lot of cars priced over £10k which is why I was wandering if my budget was sufficient. I really do want an excellent one, but I am not looking to get one to mothball it, I want to drive and enjoy it, but I would like the the paint and mechanicals to be strong. 

 

If the car has been converted I would prefer that it started life as a 1.9 due to the better interior, rear disc brakes etc. 

 

I will try and go and see some that are listed for sale to see what I think. 

 

Is there anyone local to me that would be willing to show me theirs? having not owned one for nearly 15 years it is hard to know what to expect. 

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Anthony
1 hour ago, Nails84 said:

There are a lot of cars priced over £10k which is why I was wandering if my budget was sufficient.

 

Sure, but there's considerably less that are worth those asking prices, IMO anyway.

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nomis

It's the lower mileage that really pushes the price up. I've noticed most of the above £12,000 adverts are under 80,000 miles.

 

If you're buying for the value to go up then it's probably sensible to target a lower mileage car, but if you are buying to drive it and enjoy it then you'll get a good car for less once you head north of 100,000 miles.

 

I bought mine three-and-a-half years ago with 130,000 miles on it with a load of history in a file and some recent work done, because I was after one to drive and it seemed in good nick.

 

That was over another car I looked at with 95,000 miles, but all the history had been 'lost'.

 

Touch wood, 3,000 miles a year later mine's been a good car and I am glad I did.

 

It's had a fair amount of bits of work done to make it run as well as possible and now a bit of bodywork for a few dents, spots of rust and to improve the paint. The bodywork and painting is definitely proving more expensive than the mechanical stuff.

 

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jackherer

Mileage meant very little on these cars 15 years ago and it means even less now. I would say that most sub 100k 205s I've seen leave me doubting the mileage shown on the clocks for one reason or another. If you're buying to drive it the condition is all that counts.

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Beeluff

I don’t think you are too late to the party...... there’s some really good examples around, but £10k for an exceptional example I think would be hard to find.....

 

theres a nice one here for £15,950..... a bit over budget, but I’m sure you’d get for £13k with a bit of a chat???.....

 

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/peugeot/205/peugeot-205-1-9-gti-aircon-full-3-year-bare-shell-restoration------------------1989/8832253

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Beeluff

Oh wait!!!! That’s mine!!!!! hahhaah

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Beeluff

I’ll await the onslaught lol!!!!!!!

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speno

My friend is building a phase 2 red 1.9 with rebuilt/new suspension beam engine etc . Drop me a message chap if this of interest to you 

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Nails84
8 minutes ago, speno said:

My friend is building a phase 2 red 1.9 with rebuilt/new suspension beam engine etc . Drop me a message chap if this of interest to you 

100% interested depending on price and condition. Will send you a PM. 

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GLPoomobile
On 7/30/2018 at 2:08 PM, Nails84 said:

If the car has been converted I would prefer that it started life as a 1.9 due to the better interior, rear disc brakes etc. 

I get what you are saying, but don't get hung up on that. Better interior? Half leathers, yes, but how many 1.6s have had them swapped over by now? Full leather I think was a factory option on either, and again, swapping interior over is so simple that many 1.6s no longer have cloth seats anymore. Then there's leccy windows and RCL, well many 1.6s came with those as a factory option, or have had them retrofitted. Even if you find a 1.6 with cloth seats, hand cranked widows and poverty locks, all are easy and cheap to change. Rear disc brakes - they aren't all that! Risk of pads falling out if not lockwired in place and they aren't as effective as drums.

 

THere's a few more mechanical differences between 1.6 and 1.9 you need to bare in mind even on one that's been engine converted, but everything is so easily swappable that none of these things should take priority in your consideration compared to the overall condition of the car. 

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dcc

Buy on condition of shell, not the bolt on aesthetics tbh

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Beeluff

Agreed Dcc..... I think I am going to go out and physically look at some that are for sale to see what you can get for your money :)

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Telf

Read through some of the build/refurb posts on here and you will see all the likely areas that need attention. then go look at some cars that are for sale- choose one that has the least issues!

 

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ian010778

Indeed - you'll see from my refurb' thread that even 20 years ago I drove a few that just felt as though they may have existed as two cars at one point in time.

 

I bought mine as a daily drive back then with 63k on the clock and I'm now refurb'ing it after getting to nearly 140k and recent years of neglect/storage - it wasn't perfect at the time but it had no corrosion, accelerated and braked in a straight line, was HPI clear and had all it's history with it.

 

 

Ian.

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barneys66

I think if I was spending £10k on a 205 I'd want the modifications kept to a minimum, especially if I was concerned about future resale value.

 

If you're not mechanically minded then just get classic insurance with decent breakdown cover and budget for a few repairs and maintenance as a matter of course, just like any other ~30 year old car.

 

Good luck and keep us informed.  Post details of anything you're seriously considering - the resident experts here will tell you all you need to know.

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Nails84
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies again everyone. 

 

In response to a few comments:

  • I am not concerned by re-sale value, so MI-16 and GTI-6 conversions do appeal to me
  • For the same reason I am not concerned by mileage
  • Having not driven one for 15 years I am slightly concerned the 1.9 engine will no longer appeal to me, another reason I would be interested in the MI-16 and GTI-6
  • However, if the right one came up at the right price I would still consider a 1.9 and then get a conversion done later

The one that appeals to me the most at the moment which is currently for sale is this one - https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C978702

 

If anyone knows this car or has any comments, please let me know.....:D

Edited by Nails84

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jackherer
Posted (edited)

I'd ask some questions about the rear suspension, the ride height is very high, it looks like the rear arch gap is twice the size of the front!

 

The photos aren't big enough to see much, there is a weird bracket screwed into the passenger side of the dashboard which isn't the sort of thing you want on an £11.5k car.

 

Edit: There are better photos on their website: https://luden.co.uk/1990-peugeot-205-gti-1-9-mi16/

 

The weird bracket is a rally map reading light.

 

Those are the wrong seats for an H reg, it should have the later phase 2 black and red quartet check seats.

Edited by jackherer
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speno

typical trader me thinks selling that . as said seats are wrong, why for that kind of money should the seats be wrong no idea , gear box is wrong too lift up reverse . 

also i notice not cut down inlet , so i'm guessing may be engine is tilted more on the a extended bottom mount ( not that good )

I would like to see pictures of new beam etc 

tbh anything over 10k should be standard i would think 

 

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