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Andy

Yet another XU9/10 engine build

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Andy
3 hours ago, DrSarty said:

It's not a 'spacer', but I'm sure you know that. It's a stiffener for the alloy block.

 

However: it can be used - usually with some mods to or removal of the ribs to accomodate the optional windage tray - to effectively 'space' the sump from the block, therefore upping oil capacity, at the expense perhaps of risking sump to ground impact. This works with or without the extended pick-up and even the windage tray; but why do one without the others?!

Hi Rich,

 hope the turbo project is making a bit of progress. I plan to mount the windage tray on the bolts from 2 and 4 main bearing caps  rather like as on the XU10J4 RS but with modified bolts. Engineering company are on that one . So I will end up with a deeper sump ( because of the strengthening plate) extended oil pick up so that oil is collected from the very bottom of the sump, pump chain guard, trapdoor Sump , all more or less as per Peter Taylor’s recommendations on his site 

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Andy
2 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

Andy just a quick tip for you, I see you like to work on newspaper, keeps things tidy however I find it can be a pain sliding about etc

Top tip, when passing a decorating shop go in and ask for their most lurid horrid wallpaper that no one will buy, it’s usually very cheap or free! And it makes a super bench lining material, my bench tops in certain places are mdf so I fasten it down with a staple gun. Just like newspaper you bin it after use. But it’s much more user friendly and durable to be honest. I always use it when building engines.

Nice  tip Tom. Not thought of that. You are right about the newspaper . Looks great until you try and slide something on the bench. I will be off to the decorators tomorrow 

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Andy

I got in the groove of this pump building lark and completed two more, one from a gti6 ( ie xu10j4rs) and one from an XU9J4 . At least I have condensed two boxes of bits . One or two subtle difference between these pumps. The XU9 one has no tappings  to accept the chain guard and the RS one has a thin metal spacer between the two halves of the pump. In addition, it looks as if oil that is above 6bar bleeds back into the sump on the RS pump. On all the others, it looks as if it is fed back to the gear housing .

 P.s If you read this Speno, yes, I built your pump with the same love, care and attention as I did mine ! 

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Thijs_Rallye

Andy,

 

Did you order that 6 bar spring recently or did you still had it laying around?

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Andy

Hi. Got it quite recently from my local Peugeot dealer 

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Thijs_Rallye

I've ordered 5 about a year ago and 3 months back they've cancelled my order, appearantly they either are back in stock now or you were just lucky :) 

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Andy

Sounds like I was a bit lucky! 

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Andy

96mm crank from an EW12 arrived this morning ( many thanks Dan ) I got round to offering it up to an Xu10j4 block this afternoon, and then added an Xu10j4 rod and piston for good measure ( rod has a length of 152mm ) . The first snag was the gear that drove the balance shaft on the EW engine. It fouled slightly but a few minutes with a rotary burr solved the problem for the moment . I would like to remove said gear but I am not sure if it is machined as part of the crank or pressed / sweated on rather like flywheel ring gear . The next snag is the clearance between the side of the block and the rod, which at one point gets down to 0.7mm . As I plan to use Honda pistons with a compression height of 30mm, the required bespoke rod will need to be 157mm  which could make this clearance even worse. However, there is some scope for a  bit of work with the rotary burr as there is no water jacket at that point . Bit more thinking and measuring to do here, but the possibility of 87mm bore and 96mm stroke is so tempting I may move to the dark side and shelve my XU9J4 build for a while .

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xy8

I used DW12 crankshaft , ring gear for balance shaft was pressed on  also  welded in two spots, easy to remove. 

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Andy

Yes. Discovered that this afternoon. One hammer, one copper drift and a few blows and the ring jumped off 

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DrSarty

Nice to see this progressing. (My Xsara turbo thingy will start moving again shortly now we're settled in the new house.)

 

I'm just wondering (hoping that) if I get blamed for steering the plan towards more cubic inches. (Insert evil smiley)

 

I believe the trialling of an EW12 crank - sneaking an extra 4mm of throw - is down to challenges finding a 2.1 diesel crank (?), which I'm suffering too. 406 2.1 TD crank I believe; not sure if HDIs are usable (?).

 

Anyway: I like fluid/agile plans. If one has the cash, time and capacity for change and potential resulting extra work, and it doesn't go against a rigid/explicit initial design goal - perhaps due to competition regs - I'm totally behind gaining displacement while one can. Short of going V6 - which has its own baggage - this is the best way and perhaps should always be taken if practical. My opinion.

 

One thing perhaps worthy of discussion, is how much engine characteristics/the (or any) resulting driving experience may alter. And I'd speculate that gearboxes and final drives (and diffs) - and maybe even the application - become factors.

 

My 2.2 Mi16 on a 1.9 'box and FD was 'a thumper'; I maybe didn't rev it as I didn't need to, as I was already threatening Han Solo's record on The Kessel Run! But did I lose some of the Mi16 experience?

 

Opens the floor....

 

 

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Andy

Hi Rich,

Good to hear from you. I am pleased that your move had gone well. Finding a 92mm crank was getting tricky. As you know I was offered a full engine for nearly £500, but that really did feel like a step too far . Anyway, it was dcc (Daniel Clarke) who suggested I think about the EW12 crank, and less than a week later , here I am with a 96mm crank and, God forbid, a cast iron block . I am increasingly considering pausing my XU9J4 build with its 85mm bore . I have all the parts for the head which will work on either engine , and nearly 2.3 litres is pretty tempting. I have the spacer , the gti6 Sump, the windage tray, the extended  oil pump . Honda piston from CP are £520 shipped and are almost perfect for my spec, so the only custom item will be the rods, which I will have to spec and get axe. Having said that , they will be a 157mm version of Xu10j4  rods ,  more or less . I think that Robson charge about £650 for a set .

As for gearbox , I have a fully rebuilt Mi16 with a Quaife. With this engine, I am erring towards a set of 1.9 ratios, 4.06 final drive, Quaife and perhaps a taller 5th gear ( 0.8 or 0.76) . I have all the bits , and I also have a really good rebuilt standard 1.9 box, so lots of options . However, getting ahead of myself. I have an engine to finish for Speno, my engine bay to completely strip and paint and then my engine to build . Perhaps as well I am retired!

Andy

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Andy

P.s yes. It is your fault. I was quite content with 1998cc until you showed seeds of doubt ( or is  it greed) 

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xy8

Dw 12 crankshaft was 19 kg ,  have you weighed ew12 crankshaft ,

 

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Andy

Hi. No I haven’t yet, but it does not feel as heavy as my Mi16 one which is 16kg. I will check it on the bathroom scales and let you know.

 

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xy8

 

15 Kg That is a surprise,i have wrong crankshaft then. 

Mi16 crankshaft was 17.450 kg on my scales.

mi16.jpg

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Andy

Ah. Hang on a minute. I think that the Mi16 was about 17kg ( I misremembered it) and, much to my surprise, the xu9D.

 crank which I have was 1kg lighter at 16kg,. This EW12 crank is lighter still at 15kg, but my measurements are not as good as yours 

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Andy

You are right about the Mi16 crank weight. I got it muddled with the xu9D crank which is 16kg. The EW12 is definitely lighter, although I have no knowledge of the DW12 , which could well be more massive 

Andy

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Andy

Bit of work on  the Xu10 block ( heavy aren’t they?) . Preliminary degrease, paint stripped from one side and thread cleaning begun. Prepping this block is going to be a long job

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Tom Fenton

I put taps in my battery drill/driver. Set it to the lowest screwdriving torque setting and the clutch will slip before you can break a tap. Makes short work of cleaning threads out.

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Andy

Cheers Tom. I have spent an hour so far and no where near finished. Good idea, but I will be careful . Removing a sheared gap would not be entertaining . Got some more Bilthamber deox C on order so that I can give the b,Oct a long soak in the solution. Brilliant at removing corrosion but all the paint needs to be off first . Oh, rechni al question about the engine mount . I have the iron top mount. I also have the large casting that bolts in to the block side that holds the alternator, probably a power steering pump and weighs just a bit less than the Moon . I also have a much smaller casting that bolts on the  block that just is the engine mounting. That suggests that there must be another bracket that Peugeot made that supported the alternator. I will post a couple of photographs to show what I mean . It would be nice to have the latter rather than the former , which will need an appointment with an angle grinder prior to use 

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DrSarty

That iron block bracket IS enormous! I cut mine down to a shadow of its former self, and may still have it if you want it?

 

This is on the proviso that it's solely for the alternator, i.e. no A/C and some other form of power steering source e.g. electric pump or column, where I believe you have the latter.

 

Also with the iron block, the dip stick is at the rear, so ensure it seals (to avoid pesky leaks) and that you secure the top, possibly off a cam cover bolt with a small bracket.

 

You may also experience a tight fit with the cam cover near the brake master cylinder.

 

Hope that helps, big displacement junky!

Edited by DrSarty

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welshpug

EW 12 uses a quite heavy balance weight assembly which may explain why the crank itself is not as heavy.

 

the S16 non ac bracket is much smaller and lighter than the ac and later gti6 item.

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