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Telf

Afm Remanufacturing

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Telf

Hi all,

 

As many will be aware I'm in the process of refreshing the GTI. As the engine bay is getting a repaint and a rebuilt engine is going to be fitted I started thinking about all the other components I might have to renew.

 

Most stuff seems fairly easy, hoses, distributor etc - just a case of throwing enough money at it. I then thought maybe I should look for a new or reconditioned AFM. As far as I'm aware mine has been fitted since 1989 and has covered about 250000 miles.

 

I've seen ATP electronics mentioned a few times on the forum so contacted them about possibly reconditioning my AFM. So far the process has been quite painful, about £50 to send it to them and £200 to refurb it if required. I have asked what do they refurb? the resistive track? the wiper arm or spring? I can't get an answer other than whatever needs doing. Now bearing in mind that I want this car to be good for a pain free 60k of motoring post completion I'd like to know what the £200 buys you!

 

As I'm an electronics engineer by trade and have taken a couple of AFMs to bits its professional but also customer based curiosity. I vaguely remember reading that the track cant be replaced but equally I cant confirm that . Also I'm fairly sure the spring mechanism was set at manufacture.

 

So, has anybody had any experience of an AFM refurb by this company? Or is there any other company that reconditions them? Any help would be great

 

Thanks.

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welshpug

yep, had one done many years ago, worked spot on, very minimal faffing to get the car running at 1.5% co, was great on fuel for a gti.

 

have seen their sticker on so many afm's, id imagine they know what they're doing.

 

ive never come across any other companies that do them.

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welshpug

it was £150 exchange 10 years ago.

 

not sure why you paid £50 to post an ecu, should be £15 at the most.

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Telf

Do you know what they did to it Mei?

 

I haven't posted it yet - they said £50 to test and return it.

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welshpug

ohh i see.

 

you can test yourself easily enough.

 

no idea what was done, it looked and worked like new, has a warranty, cant ask for much more!

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Anthony

Throwing the cat amongst the pigeons for a moment, the problem I see with going down this route is, unless you want absolute originality, the same sort of money it'll cost to get the AFM and dizzy refurbished would buy you a complete MP3.1 setup from a ZX Volcane if you're patient (they come up for sale very rarely!)

 

That's unquestionably a far better setup in every regard than Jetronic is even with refurbished bits...

 

It might be worth keeping an eye out on eBay and the like, as occasionally NOS AFM's do appear on there.

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Leslie green

There were new ones on ebay not that long ago which would seem like a better way than fixing a very worn one ,same sort of money too as that refurb if I remember right.

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DamirGTI

Potentiometer track seems to be main issue on AFM , adjusting can be done easy if having an WB sensor/gauge . Theres some spec. carbon ink for "filling" the worn potentiometer track .. haven't tried myself yet but will do on the next occasion .

 

D

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Telf

Thanks guys. Not sure what Ill do yet. Maybe that Ill go for an Emerald setup and a stripped out AFM as Jackherer has suggested. Not sure yet.

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Telf

so a year later and I'm no closer to a decision on what to do with my AFM. I've had many a discussion with Jackherer about going for an emerald setup but I'm still wanting to keep it original if possible.

 

What I do know is that the 2 AFM's I have are both functional- tested with a multimeter and battery attached and I got the same output from both then the flapper was moved.

 

I'd like to try ATP but didn't get a great response when I tried to call and ask what they actually do during a refurb- does anybody have any idea at all?

 

 

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brumster

I've never seen inside one but short of the mechanical side of things (bearings/etc) surely it's only some sort of potentiometer or by the sound of the above, a resistive track of some description. Worst case you're replacing some PCB (with either genuine, or else you've engineered a replacement yourself with the correct properties in terms of track length/copper thickness/resistance) or tweaking some calibration pots/resistors/etc...? What's inside them, anyone got any pics?!

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jackherer

Motronic AFMs are just a linear potentiometer but Jetronic ones had the carbon track laser cut or something during manufacture. The non-linear potentiometer is effectively the fuel map for that particular engine. This is why a 1.6 and a 1.9 with Jetronic need different AFMs from each other but the Mi16 Motronic AFM is the same part number as a Cavalier 2.0 and some Alfas too.

 

Edit: They talk about the laser trimming here - http://web.archive.org/web/20090321104948/http://www.the944.com/afm.htm

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Telf

That article just about covers it. I believe that ATP simply adjust the track as described in the article. I'm not paying good money for that!

afm_body.jpg

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opticaltrigger

Hi Telf,

I can only speak from a personal opinion here.

I really do get it with the keeping it original thing, truly, I do. But again in my opinion (and that's all it is). This old stuff really has had it to be honest. Yes,,, you can have old bits re-vamped with refurbished distributors and tidied up AFM's etc, but the best your going to get is just cleaned up old gear and ultimately pay money for a compromise.

You could probably source a new AFM, and you could lay your hands to a quality distributor, replace all the other usual culprits and it would run well again for a while but eventually something will crop up with it all again. Much the same as they all did when they were new.

All these old technology ancillary's are what they are Telf. Old mechanical stuff that absolutely will give issues sooner or later and will always be slightly underwhelming when it comes to performance and reliability.

 

Honestly for similar money, maybe a little more. You could kit yourself out with a modern standalone ECU and be satisfied forever with it.

It will always out perform the OEM stuff in terms of reliability, longevity, performance, and tune-ability. You just won't look back. And with that lovely engine of yours it's a great solution both technically and practically. It will always perform perfectly in every way and if you ever had an issue crop up, it would be so much easier to log and identify it from a modern perspective. You could even use a MAF based solution and go super accurate whilst at the same time still giving a hint to it's AFM roots. 

 

It's as I said a personal view on this stuff, but to me the sensible way forward really..... All the same,really great car Telf !!!, I love it..........

 

All the very best

O.T.

 

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Telf

So today I've had a stroke of luck , found a Emerald K3 for £300. Looks like the AFM is going to be history on my car.

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jackherer

Keep an AFM that looks good externally and smash the insides out then fit it so your car looks standard.

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Telf

Yeah mate that's exactly what I'm going to do. Buy a 1.6 one off flea bay and gut it. Buy a new set of induction pipes from baker and make it look standard. I'll keep all my old kit just incase so it could be converted back.

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jackherer

I reckon you can do the same with the ignition too, i.e. keep a standard dizzy but cut a hole in the bottom of the dizzy cap, route the four HT leads from the new wasted spark coil pack into the cap then drill out the four posts and route the leads out of it. With rubber boots on them they should look like they're plugged in rather than routed through.

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Telf

We will have to discuss this at the weekend...

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Telf

I'm fully blaming you for this Kieran...:)

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opticaltrigger
11 minutes ago, jackherer said:

I reckon you can do the same with the ignition too, i.e. keep a standard dizzy but cut a hole in the bottom of the dizzy cap, route the four HT leads from the new wasted spark coil pack into the cap then drill out the four posts and route the leads out of it. With rubber boots on them they should look like they're plugged in rather than routed through.

That's a cool idea K, I like that.

 

Hi Telf, I'm not familiar with Emerald so I don't know weather the K3 supports MAF or not, but I'm sure it does. But if you did decided to go MAF as apposed to speed density on the set up, then be sure to put the MAF sensor in front of the hollowed out AFM so that it only see's linear air flow across it. Or you'll never get it happy on the tune.

Speed density over a MAP sensor would be much simpler though. 

That K3 will completely change your entire game with it Telf. Great choice mate, there's just no comparison between the old stuff and a modern solution... None whatsoever.

 

All the very best

O.T.

 

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Telf

I think (unless my mentor has led me astray) that the AFM will be purely cosmetic so it will be a speed density setup?!?

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jackherer

Emerald doesn't support MAF AFAIK so it'll be a MAP sensor. I just use the TPS on mine due to ITBs (alpha-N)

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opticaltrigger

It's gonna be a night and day difference by comparison, MAP/TPS or both.

I like TPS as it's a very fast input for a snappy throttle.

I love it when people do this with there 205's. It's such a progressive move which takes the cars to a new place really.

 

O.T.

 

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