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changingman

Blown Head Gasket Symptoms.

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changingman

Hi , I've had a full check over on my 205 at ******* and one of the issues they said was wrong with my car was a blown head gasket.

Now there is no water in the oil whatsoever and I have been lead to believe that this may not always be a symptom of a blown gasket.

 

I took 8 readings on a brand new compression tester today, four when cold and four when car had ran until the fan cut in and these are the results.

 

These are 3 of the 8 pictures I took after every test and they all read almost identical figures.

 

Now as I'm only just starting to dabble in my own mechanics, are there any other symptoms I can look for to check because as far as I see it my car hasn't got a blown gasket.

 

The strut brace had not been taken off as I had to.use a chisel to get it off and loads of the bolts in the coil packs were hand tight, so tight I had to get a set of grips on them or completely missing and they had not reported anything about coil pack bolts.

 

Cheers

Liam

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Edited by changingman

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welshpug

if there were coil pack bolts missing totally allowing one to rattle about that may be the cause of a misfire if you have one.

 

typically these engines leak between cylinder 4 and the rear corner waterway in my experience, however until they let go totally it can be hard to diagnose at all.

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changingman

if there were coil pack bolts missing totally allowing one to rattle about that may be the cause of a misfire if you have one.

typically these engines leak between cylinder 4 and the rear corner waterway in my experience, however until they let go totally it can be hard to diagnose at all.

No Meirion it runs like a dream, it did hunt a little bit for a couple of minutes after I'd messed about with the plugs and some sand paper, but it stopped after a couple of minutes. Edited by changingman

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dobboy

Another symptom of a failed HG is your water system over pressurising caused by exhaust gases getting into a water way, and you usually loose water via expansion tank overflow pipe and/or lid.. Pipes can balloon with the pressure too.

 

I "think" your compression results look good, and if you've no white smoke or loss of water then your HG looks to be fine.

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changingman

Another symptom of a failed HG is your water system over pressurising caused by exhaust gases getting into a water way, and you usually loose water via expansion tank overflow pipe and/or lid.. Pipes can balloon with the pressure too.

I "think" your compression results look good, and if you've no white smoke or loss of water then your HG looks to be fine.

There is no loss of water whatsoever, it's dry as a bone there is no smoke of any colour coming out of the exhaust , so I believe you are correct! !

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welshpug

why do you suspect hg issues?

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changingman

why do you suspect hg issues?

Because the garage who shall remain nameless for now that i paid to do a thorough check over of my 205 said it had gone, which is now making me wonder how much of the other things on a rather long list are not entirely true.

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Miles

What are the spark plugs like, you can see if waters got in there by the colour of them, Also worth doing a leak down test if you can, compression doesn;t tell you too much

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changingman

What are the spark plugs like, you can see if waters got in there by the colour of them, Also worth doing a leak down test if you can, compression doesn;t tell you too much

They were fairly black if I'm honest with you but I sanded then clean with no hassle .

Cheers.!

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Miles

If water was in the cylinder it act's like a cleaner and the plug would be white and clean

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Mikey S

They were fairly black if I'm honest with you but I sanded then clean with no hassle .

Cheers.!

Pop it by another garage and ask them to block test it. Surefire way to identify whether you have a combustion leak into the cooling system.

 

Mike

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changingman

Pop it by another garage and ask them to block test it. Surefire way to identify whether you have a combustion leak into the cooling system.

Mike

Cheers mate, I'm on it! !

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changingman

If water was in the cylinder it act's like a cleaner and the plug would be white and clean

haha definitely not white, nice one! !

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dobboy

I wouldnt even bother thinking about the HG any further. Waste of £ and effort.

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changingman

I wouldnt even bother thinking about the HG any further. Waste of £ and effort.

It's the least of my concerns to be honest, I'm currently trying to prove ******* wrong about the rear main seal they said was gone and wanted to take the engine out.

I have some very damming photos/videos that so far prove them wrong.

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welshpug

well if you haven't paid them to fix it there's no need to take it futher and just don't go there again

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Anthony

I don't know who did the inspection, but it strikes me as a little odd your reaction in trying to prove them wrong? Surely all that matters is that you rectify the faults and enjoy the car?

 

In the case of the flywheel end crank seal, you've four potential leak points within about 3" of one another and trying to accurately diagnose which is leaking is no easy job, especially once oil has been leaking a while. Certainly the symptoms you described would fit with a seal failure and unless the sump bolts were obviously loose that might not be picked up on a general car inspection (ie whilst inspecting a car you wouldn't typically start trying to tighten bolts to resolve an issue, just note it - in this case something like "oil leak at flywheel end of engine, possible crank seal failure")

 

If the sump is leaking because the bolts were loose, chances are it won't seal again without removing it and fitting either another gasket or applying fresh sealant as appropriate. Once the seal/gasket has been compromised, simply tightening the bolts won't properly sort it.

 

Oh, and remember they're only M7 bolts - they are pretty much just nipped up, not tightened with any real force. Torque settings are in the HBOL but they're too low for a typical 3/8" torque wrench.

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welshpug

something like 11nm rings a bell.

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changingman

I don't know who did the inspection, but it strikes me as a little odd your reaction in trying to prove them wrong? Surely all that matters is that you rectify the faults and enjoy the car?In the case of the flywheel end crank seal, you've four potential leak points within about 3" of one another and trying to accurately diagnose which is leaking is no easy job, especially once oil has been leaking a while. Certainly the symptoms you described would fit with a seal failure and unless the sump bolts were obviously loose that might not be picked up on a general car inspection (ie whilst inspecting a car you wouldn't typically start trying to tighten bolts to resolve an issue, just note it - in this case something like "oil leak at flywheel end of engine, possible crank seal failure")If the sump is leaking because the bolts were loose, chances are it won't seal again without removing it and fitting either another gasket or applying fresh sealant as appropriate. Once the seal/gasket has been compromised, simply tightening the bolts won't properly sort it.Oh, and remember they're only M7 bolts - they are pretty much just nipped up, not tightened with any real force. Torque settings are in the HBOL but they're too low for a typical 3/8" torque wrench.

The £2500 they wanted to charge me and them being adamant that the engine had to come out even to do some electrical items got me fired up that's all.

I am not a vindictive man and never go out of my way to cause trouble, but so far it seems as though I paid then to misdiagnose my problems.

 

The head gasket is sound and the sump gasket is compromised.

 

Now the way I see it , once proved conclusively that they were very wrong , I now have £ 2500 to spend on my 205 on other things and making it look pretty. Haha!

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changingman

Oh and they didn't mention loose or missing bolts on the sump or any of the coil packs Anthony! !

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Anthony

£2500 to remove/refit the engine, replace the HG, fix the oil leaks and electrical woes? Yikes :blink:

 

I've owned these crates long enough that I'm still of the mindset that paying that sort of money for a complete working fault-free 205 seems extravagant (even though realistically that's probably the minimum you'll pay for a reasonable MOT'd driveable example these days), let alone just that to make good pre-existing faults on a recently purchased one...

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changingman

£2500 to remove/refit the engine, replace the HG, fix the oil leaks and electrical woes? Yikes :blink:I've owned these crates long enough that I'm still of the mindset that paying that sort of money for a complete working fault-free 205 seems extravagant (even though realistically that's probably the minimum you'll pay for a reasonable MOT'd driveable example these days), let alone just that to make good pre-existing faults on a recently purchased one...

£2500 to remove/refit the engine, replace the HG, fix the oil leaks and electrical woes? Yikes :blink:I've owned these crates long enough that I'm still of the mindset that paying that sort of money for a complete working fault-free 205 seems extravagant (even though realistically that's probably the minimum you'll pay for a reasonable MOT'd driveable example these days), let alone just that to make good pre-existing faults on a recently purchased one...

Yeah , can you see why I'm like a bloodhound with a scent Anthony? ?

Had it have been 1500 then I would have swallowed it as id budgeted 1200 for repairs, but 2500 for the engine section alone made me sit up and take notice.

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changingman

And with the help of you guys I am getting to the bottom of it.

 

I am 100 certain it's a sump gasket issue, will check the sump today to see if it's steel or alloy and if it actually needed a gasket on in the first place.

 

Cheers

Liam

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Mikey S

Is it fitted with a sump spacer?

 

Mike

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changingman

Is it fitted with a sump spacer?

Mike

I don't know what one of them is! !

It is an alloy sump as I tried a magnet on it today and it wouldn't stick.

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