Xmt - Sarty's Xsara GTI6 Turbo

[petert 549]

It reads well, other than camshaft choice. I take it you're using rod length to control CR? What fuel will you use? I'd be aiming for 9.5:1 min.

Edited March 21, 2020 by petert

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Exactly. Rod length is the variable that allows the CR flexibility, which is why we need the head work done ( chamber volume) and the block bored and skimmed first. 9.5? I understand that choice and if funds were unlimited a bespoke cam in combination would be wonderful. ( I have answered this on Richards behalf, cheeky sod that I am. 
Andy

[petert 549]

My bag(s) will be light.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Ha ha. Over to you Rich.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

A long time coming, and Andy's asked me NOT to go overboard with/be premature singing his praises on all his work over the past few months getting this engine built and ready to drop into the Xsara.

 

He's right that the proof's in the pudding, i.e. does it start, run then perform on the rolling road at Emerald when it's mapped? Regardless, I cannot thank him enough for getting things this far in these challenging (COVID) times.

 

Whether it works or not - which I'm sure it will - his dedication to research, design detail, parts sourcing, prep and fitment since around May (2020), in amongst all the restrictions we've had placed on us PLUS him recovering from a shoulder injury and surgery, this project may have not delivered until mid-2021. So Andy: you are a superstar.

 

Before I dump some pics then, here's a brief summary of the design (incl. 'agile' decisions) we made on the way, and what we're trying to achieve:

 

- 2000 Xsara Mk I; full VTS spec less the original 2.0L engine because our donor was a Northern Ireland spec vehicle (with a 1.8L); full grey leather interior added

- 2283cc (2.3L) 16v 'lump' based on an XU10J2TE (or 'TCT') block, bored to 87mm with a 96mm DW12 (forged) crank

- Custom forged pistons & rods giving a static CR of 9.3:1 (1.25 Cometic MLS head gasket)

- GTI6/XU10J4RS head, fully 'treated', with oversized valves running standard GTI6 cams (running alloy adjustable cambelt pullies)

- Twin scroll turbo* on custom stainless manifold, downpipe and 2.75" exhaust system (*IHI, from a Subaru - model being finalised to permit 350bhp+...)

- Customised (V6) intercooler, oil cooler, Emerald K6 ECU, upgraded fuel pump and 8/staged injectors** (**regardless of people trying to keep me at 4)

- Lightened flywheel and crank pulley; refurbished BE3 VTS gearbox, GTI6 front brakes, a Helix clutch and a Quaife LS Diff

 

Remaining tasks, then the pics:

1. Fluid fill the engine (leak check)

2. Clean engine bay, collect engine, fit gearbox and drop it in

3. Plug in the loom I've made

4. Plumb in fuel (incl. swirl pot) and engine cooling

5. Finalise and fit turbo, then plumb to intercooler, throttle body etc

6. Start it, get to Emerald, map it then thrash it

 

I/we are hoping this'll be a highly tractable/usable car with circa 350bhp, but lots of mid-range oomph, i.e. a turbo'd engine that's as responsive as possible.

 

Once it works, my final steps would be to add adjustable suspension, which if possible could include a Xsara variant from Colin Satchell of his 106/Saxo rear beam set-up (with the horizontal dampers).

 

Pics then....

 

FIRST EDIT: I'm struggling to insert (not attach) pictures again. I don't wish to host them somewhere then link them like I used to, as I've heard there's a simpler way. HELP!

Edited November 5, 2020 by DrSarty

[calvinhorse 870]

Reading the spec gave me butterflies in my stomach

 

 

[petert 549]

Lol. When I see you're anticipating 350hp, I'm instantly reminded of the Chev L88 427, which 'only' made 430hp.

Edited November 6, 2020 by petert

[rubyna 4 1 Cars]

Looking forward to seeing th pics of this, i always did like the Mk1 Xsara Vts, and with the engine spec now its going to be some motor no doubt. 

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

38 minutes ago, petert said:

Lol. When I see you're anticipating 350hp, I'm instantly reminded of the Chev L88 427, which 'only' made 430hp.

Richard would like 350hp. Back in the day, my 2.0litre Integrale with a standard bottom end, Guy Croft head and cams but otherwise standard (manifold, Turbo) and an upgraded inter cooler made 286hp . The works cars quoted 300hp with a very similar spec although at the time (1991) the opposition thought that Lancia were under quoting and that in fact it made more . Anyway , Richard has very mild cams  but a good exhaust and a much better turbo that the old Garret T3 and 300 more  cc’s , so 350 hp might just be possible. I would be delighted with anything over 300hp with all the bits on the inside staying where I put them . 
 

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Also looking forward to the results of this project!

 

Although I must say that I think it is a flaw in the nice spec that you use a standard inlet cam. If you take the effort of 8 injectors for making it optimal , you should also take the effort to use a better inlet cam. Certainly with the increased capacity. I've seen some examples were stage1 inlet cam (fast road stuff, not race) really worked well with turbo and you can still play around with the timing. 

 

Anyway, it will be a great engine! 

[welshpug 1,621]

these engines at 2.0 will make over 400 bhp with a rotrex C30/94 supercharger running 1 bar with standard cams, at 2.3 i doubt it will be an issue if the turbo is a well chosen modern unit.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

200hp per litre is impressive. Just out of curiosity, at that output, miles between rebuilds ? If it’s 100,000, sweet, but , for example , the Mitsubishi FQ400 managed , yep, 400hp on 2 litres, with 3000 miles between services . Not sure how many of them got round the clock, but at that output, the stress levels are high. I think it also had a modern turbo that was, err,sizeable with concomitant spool up delay . 

[welshpug 1,621]

fast forward 10 years from the fq400 and you have the AMG A45 getting 12k mile services

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Exactly.Fast forward.The Xu10 engine design , architecture and fabrication is late  20th century, Wnat e gone designers can now achieve reliably is much improved on what could be done at similar relative cost 30 years ago. However, all this is interesting speculation. When Richard has done his installation we will find out .

[petert 549]

I think it will make 350 easily. I'm certainly looking forward to comparing it with mine, which is a similar build but 2021cc, 10:1 and a little bit of camshaft. I'll also be limiting it to 350hp.

Edited November 8, 2020 by petert

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

10:1 Peter. Impressed. What cam did you use out of curiosity ? 

[petert 549]

Inlet

Advertised Duration 271º

Duration @ 0.050" 230º

Max Lift 0.375"

 

Exhaust

Advertised Duration 261º

Duration @ 0.050" 223º

Max Lift 0.372"

 

Being solid, they both fit on standard cams.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Oh. So you are using solid lifters, or have I misunderstood? Nice conservative max lift . I can see why you opted for 10:1 static c.r . Maximum boost will be an interesting journey when you get to the rollers . 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks for the responses. I'll get the pics up, via URLs if I have to, later today.

 

I'd be interested to hear, perhaps from Mr Taylor, if he'd recommend going for a different inlet cam (or exhaust too) now while it's easier to do........?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

DW12, 96mm stroke. forged crank duly prepared having been balanced with the clutch and flywheel. Shiny = good:

 

 

After cleaning it was fitted to check end float, then installed with new shells and XU9D thrust washers; total end float was 0.1mm (Peugeot spec is .07-.27mm). Main caps then torqued down and the hockey stick seals fitted with Threebond 1211 sealant, and torqued bolts then spotted with red paint.

 

Then pistons and rods (all match-weighted of course), plus the clutch, and then the oil pump and windage tray:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Naturally LOTS of cleaning and deburring prep was put in beforehand, and the block painted in the nearest available paint.

 

It then gets its sump, the oil cooler union fitted and the assembled head dropped on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Andy also fabricated a nice TDC marker:

 

 

Before I forget, with a 1.25mm MLS gasket, we had 155.6mm forged rods made to give 9.26:1 static CR.

 

Some pics of the head detail will follow after the general assembly pics.

Edited November 8, 2020 by DrSarty

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Cams initially timed up on the new belt, tensioner, idler and with the Baker BBM lightweight crank pulley using OE cam sprockets, then they were swapped out for the new ones:

 

 

 

 

 

Now some head porn...

 

 

 

 

 

Head bolt holes were all cleaned and depth checked in the block before the head was fitted and torqued down. The head, along with its triple-cut, oversized valve seats (for the oversized valves) was assembled with fully refurbed and primed hydraulic lifters.

 

 

The next update will show the refurbed cam covers fitted plus a test fit of ancillaries (like alternator, stat housing with coolant hoses and also oil breather and filler hoses) prior to them coming off again for the engine to be dropped in.

Edited November 8, 2020 by DrSarty

[petert 549]

Nice pics. That's looking beautiful. I like the TDC pointer!

 

Yes, I'm using solid lifters as it's a race engine and I'm still planning to wring its neck and abuse it. Regrinds make it easy, as it's impossible to get blanks at present.

 

If I was building your engine, I would have used my Stage I regrinds on your build. ie 215º @ 0.050". Or something like PT80? and advance the exhaust to no more than 0.020" lift @ TDC.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Can't see the pictures...?? 

 

I never intend to say the 350bhp cannot be done with the standard inlet cam.

Upgraded inlet cam will only make it easier, with less boost.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Can't see pictures either.

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

Can't see the pictures also.

You will get 350 hp easily with this setup and probably since you are 2.3l  you will only need mild boost around 1.2- 1.5 bar to get to 350 hp if you rev to 7000 rpm(standard gti-6 camshafts).

With proper twin scroll manifold it will be great to drive from low rpm.

Maybe you will need to limit the boost down low and in mid-range because of too much torque.

What ihi it is? 36,38,47 ?

Why complicate with 8 injectors for this kind of power?

You can get cheap bosch motorsport in the range of 800-100 cc if you plan to have more power in the future and if you plan to stick with 350 hp just get some siemens deka 630cc injectors.

Do you plan to shorten gti-6 inlet manifold?

Edited November 9, 2020 by kutija