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DrSarty

Xmt - Sarty's Xsara GTI6 Turbo

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petert

More on the topic:
 

 

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petert

I guess you just plumb it as below. I was thinking you needed the extra port on the wastegate.

Screen Shot 2018-09-13 at 2.19.50 PM.png

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wicked

He has an internal waste gate and probably will run not that much boost that the internal wastegate picture will not work. 

 

Before you start running closed loop, you should make sure that the open loop forward gain is already spot on.

The closed loop should only be there to compensate for disturbances like temperature, gearing etc.  

On my gti the wastegate valve is closed below 0.5? bar boost and the rpm dependent feed forward gain is more or less giving the boost level I want (in 3th gear, average temperature).

If the feed forward gain is way off, the closed loop PID needs to work hard and will either end up in integrator wind up or needs to be tuned at a low bandwidth, resulting in slow boost build up.  

Edited by wicked
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405 16v

Hello friends
I want to know how much xu7jp4 lfy engine can withstand boost with piston and factory engine

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ra40

Just go to XU10. It handle 260-270 hp stock. With forged rods & pistons over 500 hp.

 

72769251-816919362044345-343556760161327
screenshot-94.png
 

 

Edited by ra40

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DrSarty

Advice is still trickling in, which has been helped by me having my finger up my ar5e for a few/many months.

 

UPDATE:

  • Miles will be building my engine; he'll get it shortly
  • We've discussed the alloy block design extensively, and aligned with other research, I feel an iron block is the way to go (at least in terms of de-risking an early 'bang' i.e. reliability, and exploring better performance potentials)
  • We will (likely) base things on an XU10J2TE (or 'TCT') bottom end (RGX or RGY), so we're starting with an 86 x 86mm (bore/piston using TCT or J4RS crank)
  • Sump will be TCT or J4RS depending on what comes with the TCT b/e
  • Turbo oil supply & drain (perhaps plus oil cooling too) may be easier to access with the TCT
  • Head will be J4RS regardless (16v rather than 8v), however the standard 7.9 (!!!) CR may be something we can explore using different rod &/or piston combinations....meaning the final design is still a WIP (Work in Progress)
  • This perhaps means TCT (8v) pistons despite a 16v head; CR therefore may be something we can play with based on piston to valve clearances obtained and intended 'fast road' use
  • So we could be playing with a bore increase up to 87mm (unshrouding the combustion chamber too) with larger pistons, &/or a piston &/or rod change
  • TCT approach MAY *comments requested* permit a better flywheel & clutch combination, i.e. bigger than the XU7 route I was going

So it's not quite back to the drawing board; it's just an evolution of ideas.

 

Loom is built / ECU ready to fit (Emerald K6) / intercooler fitted / brakes done / uprated MAP sensor ready / inlet manifold modified for staged injectors (I know, I know...but it's what I want) / turbo ready / exhaust manifold & downpipe ready {stills needs downpipe back} / uprated fuel supply ready

 

Ultimately it's down to time with Miles > final design > build > ship back to me > me removing digit > mapping > bwarrp...chu chu (a la Mighty Car Mods)

 

Aiming for June.

 

Thoughts?

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SRDT

TCT flywheel & clutch with a BE3? It can be done but that's not the easy way.

You can use a 206 GTI flywheel and a 306 HDI clutch ; just remember to shift the TDC by 11.5° on the ECU.

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petert

Hello Rich. I've started building my turbo iron block. It's 86.5x86, flat top pistons and 10:1. Turbo is twin scroll TD05. I engaged the services of this guru, who use to work for an F1 team.

http://www.gtpumps.com.au/

A local guy is making the twin scroll manifold.

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wicked

In the end it doesn't make a huge difference for all the turbo connections if you go for iron or alloy block; it will all be a pita.... 

 

As a longwinded side project I'm building a mi16 with twin scroll td05 from an evo X. Getting all stuff fit, other than the turbo itself is the biggest challenge. 

 

If you move over to the iron block, note that block is a bit higher, so make sure your manifold and downpipe still fit. 

 

@petert; which turbo are you using? Having rhd will make it a lot easier wrt lhd.. 

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petert

TD05H 9B-712. It should be an easy fit with internal gating and electric PAS.

Edited by petert

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wicked

Does not ring a bell and google only gives me kinugawa turbos on that query. 

 

I had lot of troubles with lhd speedo cable, brake booster and steering column. 

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petert

9B-712 is probably just his part number. It fits Evo's.

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petert

271º inlet, 261º exhaust, solid

9M - 9 blade lightweight turbine, rather than 12

71mm compressor

3" intake

Resized_20200227_173854.jpeg

Resized_20200227_173906.jpeg

Resized_20200227_173919.jpeg

Edited by petert

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wicked

That's not a stock turbo, but a rally special!! The form factor and non-oem flanges look indeed nice and ease custom manifold fabrication. 

Will be a mental engine with that turbo and cams! Poor drive train... 

Edited by wicked

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wicked

Current state of my long-winded project with alloy mi16 block and twin scroll Evo X turbo. Pretty similar to what Rich is trying to build. Iron block is probably a more sensible choice, but kinda like the old mi16's.. 

Due to some sad family issues I didn't have much time to work on it, so not much progress last year, but aim to have it running mid summer. 

4a3df606-ff67-42b4-a45a-288ff2edc061.jpg

 

Still a mockup and needs final build and mapping if I finish the last todo's. 

Edited by wicked
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DrSarty

It'd be boring if we all did the same thing.

 

Thanks for the support, stories and advice. I never thought PeterT would go turbo!!

 

Off on an epic journey tomorrow to collect the TCT b/e, and deliver all the bits to Miles.

 

I'll keep you posted on what we end up with. I can't see me staying at 8:1 CR though. Kinda wishing I'd gone EW12 now, but I'm sure we'll create something funky.

 

I'm considering asking Miles/a turbo specialist to increase the flow capacity of the IHI VF38 turbo per some advice in here, to ensure it's not strangled to 300bhp.

 

Keep watching folks!

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petert

Rolf is yours XU9J4Z? I always thought Rich’s idea of running that spec worthwhile.

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wicked

Yes, it's a DFW, with your stage1 cam, 1:8,8 cr, build many moons ago. Was already standing in my office on an engine stand before this topic started, waiting until my tct blew its head gasket. 

 

I thought Rich wanted to start with LFY 1.8 16v?

Edited by wicked

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petert

I thought I traded some DFW pistons a while back?

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DrSarty

I still have those DFW pistons but may not be using them or the alloy block now.

 

I'll be consulting with Miles early this week, but my current thoughts - due to quick availability of bits - is the TCT block bored to 87mm, 87mm forged pistons, 158mm forged rods & an 88mm forged crank. This'll yield 9:1 CR after a deck height reduction, a robust bottom end & 2092cc.

 

If I can find an XU11D (92mm) crank then no decking is needed.

 

These are just initial ideas & calcs; Miles may have other ideas. And I've even been playing with the potentially silly idea of sleeving the iron block down to 83mm & staying with Mi XU9 pistons!

 

Final design to be agreed this week; build starts next week.....at last.

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camgti

Great news. Glad to see its all coming together. These things always take ages. 

 

Hope all is well otherwise

 

Cam

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DrSarty

Hi Cam and thanks. I had no idea this would be such a long journey!

 

However, at last I've locked down the design. I say "I've", but really it's become a new collaboration between Andy205 and me, and his huge enthusiasm - despite recently busting his shoulder up in a bike fall - has suddenly accelerated things.

 

Here's the design & what's happening in brief. In short it's involved lots of playing with bits and options, and spending a big wodge of cash!!!:

- XU10J2TE ('TCT') iron block, bored to 87mm (workshop to clean, bore to 87mm, resurface deck & modify OE turbo oil drain tube. Will also check cam belt tensioner holes)

- XU10J4RS ('GTI6') head, standard cams, new lifters, PAC valve springs with standard collets & retainers, but G&S oversized inlet & exhaust valves allowing triple-cut seats

- DW12 forged, 96mm crank

- Wiseco forged, 87mm pistons

- (Can't remember make, but they'll be custom) forged (con)rods, ~155mm (final measurement TBC on dry assembly & combustion chamber vol measurement)

 

Target CR circa 9:1, but we've now leapt from 1.9L to 2.3L. I'll see if the IHI VF38 turbo's compressor can be slightly upgraded to improve flow to give 300bhp flow/headroom, although I may consider a different IHI turbo - ,mentioned in this thread I believe - if it's a straight swap onto my manifold and gearbox mount.

 

Bearings are/will all be top quality, with ARP rod bolts. Sump will be GTI6 or TCT depending what the TCT has on it when I pull it apart today. Windage tray is a definite and we're looking at the best pump sprocket and chain combo.

 

With the main engine bits going off next week for work, I'll be able to finalise design for turbo control thingies and prep air, oil and coolant hosing.

 

So I apologise for all the faffing about, but I'm happy I'm doing this once, right and bigger!!

 

P.S. Attached is my Excel engine calculator that helped with the design. Have a play, and let me know if any calcs are wrong.

 

Calc - Engine Displ & CR.xlsx

Edited by DrSarty

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DrSarty

Forgot to mention...

 

4.5kg billet 206 GTI flywheel with Helix 307 HDI clutch, with pull to push convertor.

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SRDT

Pull to push convertor?

Are you using a cable or slave cylinder setup?

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