What Have You Done To Your 205 Today?

[woodymi16 24 2 Cars]

Emptied and then filled the tank to calibrate the new gauge

[SweetBadger 91]

 

Removed pedal box, replaced front master cylinder, adjusted balance bar to account for more travel on the front cylinder and added a guide for the master cylinder pivot points to keep the master cylinder push rod angle nice and straight.

 

Was having issues with the balance bar twisting and then the master cylinder push rod angle angle becoming too steep, causing the pivot point to bind against the pedal and wear and causing excess premature master cylinder wear.

 

Pig of a job, but pedal feels much better.

 

Would advise anyone with this type of converted pedal setup to do similar, or at least make sure the balance bar is not binding / twisting excessively. I suspect that some thrust washers would also be a good idea.

 

 

Wear on the old pivot point can be seen here 

 

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

All the ones I've seen have a large OD washer/spacer that rides against the side of the bush in the pedal to stop that happening. Slightly bigger OD than the tube in the pedal that accepts the bearing.

[SweetBadger 91]

Yeah, I've seen some like that, but not all (think the compbrake ones don't have the washers). Might add a couple of large washers too.

 

Although it doesn't look too pretty, the guide does a really good job of keeping the push rods in line and probably more so than some additional thrust washers, so I think it was worth the hassle.

[AlexRS2782 136 1 Cars]

Dropped it off with Miles earlier in the week.  Given it's stood all year it made sense to get it in to get bits done so big old service, belts, fluids, etc, plus getting the suspension overhauled / possibly lowered slightly as that's one of the jobs that's been on a to-do list for the last few years.

 

I'm classing it as an early Christmas present for the car   This should get the mechanical side of things sorted for a few years meaning i can start planning to get the bodywork / paint sorted either in '21 or the year after.

[bacardincoke 42 1 Cars]

Mentioned elsewhere that I'd got myself a Gunson tester and have used it a few times, more out of curiosity to see what the readings are but to also get in some practice.

 

The car's always started, idled and run, both hot or cold without fault in my time, it was the emissions that were the unknown for MOT time.

 

Managed to eventually get the CO2 down to the 1.5 - 1.8% range, but at that level it affected the previously smooth running very slightly and it was usually adjusted to the 2.4% mark, the lowest where the engine was happiest.

 

Think I'm right in saying the Haynes recommended levels are 1 - 2% with 1.5% being the target figure?

 

My car seems to have had various common 'period' mods done over its life, which got me thinking had some one tried to tweak the AFM at some point.

 

The lid has definitely been off and re sealed at some point, but rather than me start to mess around with it again and risk breaking or doing something irreversible I managed to get a cheap second hand one to work on instead.

 

Testing with the new one initially got me a steady 2.4% as well and as It'd been apart before too, used it as a guinea pig.

 

Did nothing more than disassemble and clean everything plus adjust the wiper arm to run on a fresh part of the conductive strip. The strip itself didn't look too bad, but the amount of dirt that came off it alone was surprising.

 

After that the car easily went straight down to 1.5% and runs perfectly at that level.

 

If you feel up to it I'd recommend having a go, the internals are quite robust and it's not difficult if you just take your time and be careful, though obviously a tester would be essential.

[boldy205 74]

11 hours ago, bacardincoke said:

Mentioned elsewhere that I'd got myself a Gunson tester and have used it a few times, more out of curiosity to see what the readings are but to also get in some practice.

 

The car's always started, idled and run, both hot or cold without fault in my time, it was the emissions that were the unknown for MOT time.

 

Managed to eventually get the CO2 down to the 1.5 - 1.8% range, but at that level it affected the previously smooth running very slightly and it was usually adjusted to the 2.4% mark, the lowest where the engine was happiest.

 

Think I'm right in saying the Haynes recommended levels are 1 - 2% with 1.5% being the target figure?

 

My car seems to have had various common 'period' mods done over its life, which got me thinking had some one tried to tweak the AFM at some point.

 

The lid has definitely been off and re sealed at some point, but rather than me start to mess around with it again and risk breaking or doing something irreversible I managed to get a cheap second hand one to work on instead.

 

Testing with the new one initially got me a steady 2.4% as well and as It'd been apart before too, used it as a guinea pig.

 

Did nothing more than disassemble and clean everything plus adjust the wiper arm to run on a fresh part of the conductive strip. The strip itself didn't look too bad, but the amount of dirt that came off it alone was surprising.

 

After that the car easily went straight down to 1.5% and runs perfectly at that level.

 

If you feel up to it I'd recommend having a go, the internals are quite robust and it's not difficult if you just take your time and be careful, though obviously a tester would be essential.

How the hell is your car so clean??? Credit to you!

[bacardincoke 42 1 Cars]

Cheers but don't be fooled... gets used, put nearly 2000 miles on it in last three months so not usually so clean.

[karabas 21]

Better looking now with retrimming.

[SweetBadger 91]

Fitted rear coliovers  (thanks PeterT)

 

 

Put front wheels back on, only to have this happen to 2 of the wheel studs while torqueing up wheel nuts 

 

 

Removed the remains of said wheel studs armed with a drill, blowtorch and stud extractor - it rained... a lot, the car was not in my garage at the time, I got wet 

 

Put spare studs in hub, wheel back on, it went dark, and yet again I failed to take the car for a drive, pushed car back into garage...

 

16 new studs ordered! Thank feck that didn't happen on a race track!

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by SweetBadger

[barneys66 120 1 Cars]

23 minutes ago, SweetBadger said:

 

16 new studs ordered! Thank feck that didn't happen on a race track!

 

Indeed!  Whose studs were they and what did you replace them with?

[SweetBadger 91]

1 hour ago, barneys66 said:

Indeed!  Whose studs were they and what did you replace them with?

 

They came with the previous race car (RIP) - spec'd as "PTS 80mm wheel studs" 

 

Have no reason to doubt that as everything else on that car was as specified in  the original ad. Maybe just years of being undone and torqued up when swapping wheels has fatigued them, but very unusual for 2 to go at exactly the same time.

 

edit, have ordered a set of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLOY-WHEEL-STUDS-OPEN-NUTS-CONVERSION-90mm-M12X1-25-X-10-FITS-PEUGEOT-1-65-1/323853366079

Edited November 16, 2020 by SweetBadger

[boldy205 74]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:53 PM, SweetBadger said:

Fitted rear coliovers  (thanks PeterT)

 

 

Put front wheels back on, only to have this happen to 2 of the wheel studs while torqueing up wheel nuts 

 

 

Removed the remains of said wheel studs armed with a drill, blowtorch and stud extractor - it rained... a lot, the car was not in my garage at the time, I got wet 

 

Put spare studs in hub, wheel back on, it went dark, and yet again I failed to take the car for a drive, pushed car back into garage...

 

16 new studs ordered! Thank feck that didn't happen on a race track!

 

Very nice coilovers! I presume these totally replace the std torsion bars and keep the standard location of the ARB?

[SweetBadger 91]

7 hours ago, boldy205 said:

Very nice coilovers! I presume these totally replace the std torsion bars and keep the standard location of the ARB?

 

They work with the torsion bars to provide extra spring rate (I'm using with 25mm bars, so very stiffly sprung, but it's a circuit race car). Arb is in the standard position.

 

Don't think you could use them on their own in that position because of the damper ratio (about 2.5 : 1); you'd need a huge spring rate to allow you to totally remove the torsion bars.

[SweetBadger 91]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:16 PM, SweetBadger said:

 

They came with the previous race car (RIP) - spec'd as "PTS 80mm wheel studs" 

 

Have no reason to doubt that as everything else on that car was as specified in  the original ad. Maybe just years of being undone and torqued up when swapping wheels has fatigued them, but very unusual for 2 to go at exactly the same time.

 

edit, have ordered a set of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLOY-WHEEL-STUDS-OPEN-NUTS-CONVERSION-90mm-M12X1-25-X-10-FITS-PEUGEOT-1-65-1/323853366079

 

Ok so time to fess up so hopefully no one else makes the same mistake as me... For some reason (and I have no idea where this figure came from) but I've always used 110Nm for the wheel nuts. 

 

@petert has let me know that this is dangerously close to or beyond the elastic limit of an M12 stud/bolt for most bolt/stud materials.

 

So likely to be my fault for overtightening the wheel nuts 

 

Make sure you don't do the same. 80Nm is the order of the day for M12 wheel nuts / studs.

Edited November 19, 2020 by SweetBadger

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Are you not mixing up with lbf ft and Nm?

 

80Nm for M12 wheel nuts is not enough I think?
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metric-bolts-maximum-torque-d_2054.html

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by wicked

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Pretty sure the 110 figure is for the crank bolt

[petert 549]

Those numbers don't make any sense, even when compared with data from the same website. eg, if you apply 80Nm of torque to a bolt with a root diameter of 10.75mm, it induces approx. 62kN of tensile force. I say approx, because obviously you can play with the constants to vary the load. If you then look at the maximum proof stress table, a load of 62kN is approx. 75% for an M12. Again, it's only approx., because a finer M12x1.25 will take more. However, in my mind, 110Nm is off the scale.

 

We've been doing up studs to 80Nm for well over 15 years of racing and we've never broken a stud or had a wheel fall off.

 

 

[welshpug 1,621]

w903 Mercedes sprinter is 177 lbft with 12x1.25 bolts   but thats a 3500 kg vehicle with 6 bolts per wheel

 

but for a pug, 85nm/62lbft is more than enough

Edited November 19, 2020 by welshpug

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:53 PM, SweetBadger said:

 

Put front wheels back on, only to have this happen to 2 of the wheel studs while torqueing up wheel nuts 

....

 

16 new studs ordered! Thank feck that didn't happen on a race track!

 

Could it be a factor that it are your front wheels; the ones that get hot on the track due to red hot discs and make the rim expand more than on the road?

I torque up all my alloys with 110Nm from the Peugeot manuals, including the ones on my track toy...

[SweetBadger 91]

21 minutes ago, wicked said:

Could it be a factor that it are your front wheels; the ones that get hot on the track due to red hot discs and make the rim expand more than on the road?

I torque up all my alloys with 110Nm from the Peugeot manuals, including the ones on my track toy...

Quite possible that the fronts have taken more stress due to the heat in the discs / wheels.

 

Haynes states 85Nm for the 205.

 

 

 

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

For steel rims? Alloys should have a +20Nm adder?

[SweetBadger 91]

Not what it says in the Haynes manual - same torque for all wheels but oil the end of the bolts for alloys, which I presume will give a larger clamp force for a given torque as there will be less friction on the threads.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Maybe time to change my habit then.. 

[Telf 222 2 Cars]

Not today but yesterday- Taxed it after a month off the road.

 

It was a nice dry day so went for a spin to a local pub. Went shopping, watched people looking at the car and taking photos. 

 

Realised the driving light bulb was blown. Got home, dismantled the lamp. Found some rust on the reflector. Took both off, ( both rusty! after a year!)treated and now waiting for the paint to dry. Just a typical 205 kind of day really!