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sosic2121

My car cuts out when warm, and it seems that it's amp's fault. runs fine with borrowed unit...

 

Is there any other good ignition amp except bosch for mi16 1.9, since they are not easy to find?

 

(unbelievably, borrowed unit comes from yugo :D )

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Miles

Sick a wanted add up, Bosch are generally the only good one 99.9% of the time,

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petert

They are the same as 205.

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sosic2121

Tnx for quick answers

Same as the 205 1.9 8v ?

gti only or any 1.9 ?

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petert

1.6/1.9 GTi

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farmer

I have a brand new Bosch unit either in my loft or coming to me in January if any good?

 

I need to check

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DamirGTI

OE MTR1 123 module is constant charge type (uses ECU to control dwell) , also known as an "dumb" ignition module .. BIM137 i.e. Bosch 1 227 022 008 is "intelligent" constant duty type module (has built in dwell control) .

 

I was also interested in upgrading the igniting system few years ago when i had some issues with coil saturation with "dumb" modules , got advice from Peter to try an "intelligent" Bosch '008 module but till today i haven't yet tried one so i can't speak from my experience but Peter said that it fits (same connector pin layout) and can be used as an upgrade for the stock ignition system , just need to check if it will overheat ..

 

D

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theo-mi16-gr

Nice! Then it makes sense why many parts company mix all these bosch numbers as cross items! (or no?) As BIM137 or BIM023 (008) have also the metal surface underneath i guess no thermal problems.I ll keep in mind then i ll have to change mine as it worths a try as beeing 'intelligent' :) And of course the DIY amp davemar made last yr using an IGBT ignition module as the one that have later ECU's inside.It seems many make their own..

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DamirGTI

There's a few other "dumb" ones apart from most commonly recommended MTR1 123 module , which is first on the list as an OE fit for 205 GTi , so that might do for the part ID confusion ..

The 008 module i think isn't available any more trough that part No. by Bosch , think it's suppressed by another part No. ending with something like ?137? .. anyway , theres a few more of them "intelligent" ones with 7pins which also work the same as 008 one so theres more choices apart from 008 if you can't find precise .

 

The "intelligent" modules are preferred over "dumb" ones especially when fitting aftermarket/SA ECU's ... saves you the bother messing with a dwell map .

 

Well , they all have metal surfaces underneath the board :

 

Ducellier "dumb" module

18807887cee7ee4bcee0af9931083b8af61638dd

 

18807886e89b1faa24aa875a74f6f65f2c60d2fe

 

... they need to be mounted away from the engine heat sources on an aluminium plate along with smear of heat sink paste/jelly at the back of the module to prevent overheating/burning out . Heat moisture and vibrations are the greatest enemy of all the ignition components .

The "intelligent" modules heats up more than "dumb" ones so they really need decent heat sink plate along with the heat sink paste/jelly (using computer CPU heat sink plates with fins would be smart for mounting "intelligent" modules to further aid cooling effect)

 

D

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theo-mi16-gr

I think that MIB137 is the replacement of MIB023 (which is 008)..at least till now the blue oe works fine..but i dint know about vibration..and i have my plate unscrewed near the battery..lol..i ll have to stabilise it! :) The idea with cpu plate and fan is really great especially if somethime use the intelligent one. thanks!

 

theo

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DamirGTI

Yes that'll be it , 137 instead of 008 :)

 

Absolutely , blue Bosch 123 module works good no complains what so ever , after all it's the best module reliability wise - virtually never goes wrong .

I wanted to have a go with "intelligent" module is when i was modifying my engine , so wanted to enhance the spark/ignition also (had some starting/spark problems too after i built the engine) , collected an full bag of different brand "dumb" modules and few different brand coils and did some tests and was surprised when i actually felt difference with one particular module (was Magneti Marelli) , after fitting the module went for a spin and noticed that oddly the engine was quite a bit more lively , literally like it had a few more hp-s ... that lead me thinking to try an "intelligent" module .

 

Think just the CPU plate with fins would be enough , no need for a fan ..

 

 

D

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sosic2121

so that would be a serious upgrade...

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theo-mi16-gr

Serious and not expensive as quality coil+amp together..but i cant answer if it is for mi16..

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DamirGTI

CD coil , never tried one on a car but been working on an outboard engines which uses CDI ignition , i'm sure Peter will know better about using this system on cars to tell you more ..

 

Anyway , if it does what it says - firing CDI like sparks , that'll be like firing up the mixture with an blowtorch ! CDI ignition systems are top of the range most strongest which you can get ignition wise , they generate extremely intense and long duration sparks . (can find CDI systems commercially commonly used on 2 stroke petrol engines - on bike/outboard engines , these need high spark intensity/duration due to the fuel mixtures which are mix of fuel and oil and as such are kinda hard to ignite properly for other ignition systems , also eliminates problems with firing wet/fouled spark plugs ..)

 

D

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theo-mi16-gr

I think the inductive ignition is the one that has the long spark..the CDI has the strong one however even at high revs..this system of aem it is supposed have the advantages of both with low cost..but i cant understand if can take an input from motronic..yes peter can probably answer or whoever else has experience with aftermarket ecus and ignition:)

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DamirGTI

Possibly .. CDI - surely produce the strongest spark (remember when touched chuffed ignition leads few times on a CDI , i can assure you it was pretty electrifying experience !)

 

CDI ignition works with magnetic or hall/led sensor signal .. me thinks it should work with Motronic CAS triggering system (dunno about Jetronic i.e. dizzy pick-up signal..) , for precise coil they state the need for 0-5V signal , OE ignition system does up to 7/8V maxi if i remember so that'll do .

 

D

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petert

I run an M&W Pro-14 on my race car. It's definitely an expensive overkill at approx AUS$900 but it's bullet proof and makes hot cams idle very nicely. You can definitely hear (and feel) the difference between a car with and without CDI. I currently run two 008 modules on my road car. I wouldn't get hung up about finding any, as they have a nasty habit of firing sometimes when the ignition is turned on, causing a backfire. Later versions solved this problem. I've never tried running them from a standard ECU. The output from the ECU is supposed to be "constant duty" rather than "constant charge". With later, you'd typically set a coil charge time of say 4ms.

 

I've also fitted a dual channel MSD to an XU10J4R, standard other than a Haltech ECU. The MSD was an MC-1, designed for motorbikes and thus perfect for a four cylinder wasted spark setup. The difference it made to that 205 is stunning. It ended up making approx 155hp. I picked a brand new, unused MC-1 on ebay recently for $75.

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sosic2121

are you saying that optimising the spark resulted in 20hp power increase? wow

or was it the ecu?

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theo-mi16-gr

Then it is better to find bim137 or perhaps a magneti marreli..worths a try both..

 

Usefull information about Msd for everyone goes to aftermarket ecu!

 

Sosic: I guess It was the ignition and the ecu combined with a perfect mapping by Peter..:)

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sosic2121

yes, that probably did it :D

 

maybe better and more precise ignition allows for more ignition advance or something :)

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SRDT

For what I understand 0 227 100 123 is a smart inductive module that turns dumb if triggered by a Motronic ECU like in the XU9JAZ or XU9J4.

That's fine with the original blue ones from back in the days but not so much with the new black ones as you will experience misfires at certain RPM. Some aftermarket modules are correctly listed as interchange parts except for the  XU9JAZ and XU9J4.

 

Is there any brand new dumb module avaible that can be used?  Like 0 227 100 124 or maybe a smart one like 0 227 100 137 as long as the Dwell map inside the ECU is tweaked?

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