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amusingadam

Rear Beam And Engine Mounts

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amusingadam

what would you do to your rear beam OE/ Group N/ Group A looking at baker kits

whos engine mounts are best been looking at the baker ones

car is 1.9 8v used for occasional track day no rallying mainly a tear around with friends

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Anthony

Given it's an 8v then personally I'd run standard mounts but with a Group N type lower bush - works well with minimal engine movement but without the excessive vibration you get from the full Group N setup. Be careful with pattern standard mounts, as some of them are shockingly soft and leave the engine flopping around like a fish out of water - I'd rather run a good condition original mount than one of those.

 

For the beam, that really depends on your preferences - for road use on standardish suspension I'd argue there's probably not a massive benefit to Group A bushes over new standard items, although I tend to fit them anyway as there's not really any downsides or notable increase in NVH and they'll not split or wear out. The front mount bushes are a pain to swap though as you'll need to drop the beam and fight to remove the old bushes, and thus if you're not in a position to be able to do that, it might be better just fitting standard or Group N rear sandwich mounts (which is the bit that normally fails - the front bushes tend to last well) which is much easier and doesn't need the beam dropping off the car.

 

Plenty of info about both engine and beam mounts if you do a search :)

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amusingadam

Thanks i was intending on dropping the beam mainly as i have never dropped one (only way of learning) and replacing all the rubbers (whats the worse thing that could happen LOL).

I have read all the info but its always good to get first hand experience on parts (who uses what) i was a bit worried about the group A rear bush kit as a lot of people tend to say its one hell of a hard ride ????? but will handle loads better?????

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johnnyboy666

I get a bit confused with which ones 'group A' and which one is 'group N', but from personal experience, I like solid rear beam mounts on a road car, not necesarily a noticable difference, but they last forever. Maybe a tiny bit more road noise if you're being picky, but nothing drastic.

 

I agree with a stiffer lower mount for the engine too, removes a bit of the slop and can make gear changes a little nicer.

 

Not sure who's told you its a harsh ride but handles much better, I think they're exagerating. Might thighten up the car a bit, but not so its noticeably harsh

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DanteICE

Thread hijack - group N front mounts all round on an Mi16, or still too much vibration?

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allanallen

If the cars just a toy I'd fit grpN engine mounts, if you use it for commuting etc I'd do as Anthony says and fit grpN lower and standard upper mounts. You only really notice any vibration at tickover.

 

If the beams being removed I'd most definetly for grpA solid beam mounts, IMO there are no negative effects to the car whatsoever. People mention more road noise but in all honesty how bloody quiets a 205 anyway?? I think different tyres make more of difference to road noise than the beam mounts.

Edited by allanallen

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pug_ham

I get a bit confused with which ones 'group A' and which one is 'group N'

Group A rear beam mounts are polyurethane bushes for the front mounts & solid alloy mounts for the back but group N are just new stiffer rubber sandwich mounts with standard rubber front bushes.

 

Group A engine mounts main difference is the solid alloy lower mount bush, not sure on the other group a engine mount specs but if you want the ultimate I believe you can get solid alloy mounts for the upper engine & gearbox.

Thread hijack - group N front mounts all round on an Mi16, or still too much vibration?

All round group N engine wonts might be too harsh, especially if you leave space between the buffers & upper mount, Just ask Greg (shark506) he has group N lower mount but with the buffers in contact it vibrates massively at any rpm & is unsuitable for a daily imo, even on a track only car I'd question the benefit of having them in contact.

 

Group N suspension top mount rubbers make no noticable difference to NVH though imo & will be fine.

 

g

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starky5

When I fitted my mi16 I went for a group n lower mount and standard pug mounts for the others and it seems to be a good set up for the road, not to much vibration or noise

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Anthony

Group N suspension top mount rubbers make no noticable difference to NVH though imo & will be fine.

I was actually quite surprised at how much they did affect NVH, in particular the ride quality and harshness of broken / poor quality tarmac. In isolation they don't feel too bad, but tested back to back against standard it's very noticeable - so much so that I've gone back to (new) standard rubbers given that my cars are almost exclusively used on the road.

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Mac Crash

I need to address the following issue on the car - 8 valve with standard engine mounts and Magnex SS manifold and exhaust system, the manifold is hitting the floor on the odd occasion due to engine movement. From what I have read across the forum and from experience with other cars it seems the best way to prevent this is to make sure the top mount and gearbox mount (battery tray one) are in good condition or renewed - and then to upgrade the bottom mount.

 

Questions: should the mount itself be upgraded, or the fork bush or both? and how difficult a job is this to do? Thanks!

Edited by Mac Crash

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Anthony

Standard top and gearbox mounts together with a standard fork bush, and then use a Group N style lower engine mount.

 

Excessive engine movement has a habit of cracking the manifolds, so probably best doing it sooner rather than later.

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Mac Crash

Anthony, thanks for confirming that - straightforward enough job to do?

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Tom Fenton

I need to address the following issue on the car - 8 valve with standard engine mounts and Magnex SS manifold and exhaust system, the manifold is hitting the floor on the odd occasion due to engine movement. From what I have read across the forum and from experience with other cars it seems the best way to prevent this is to make sure the top mount and gearbox mount (battery tray one) are in good condition or renewed - and then to upgrade the bottom mount.

 

Questions: should the mount itself be upgraded, or the fork bush or both? and how difficult a job is this to do? Thanks!

 

The magnex bits were I believe originally supplied with a stiffer/solid rubber lower bush to stop excess movement and the banging you mention.

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Mac Crash

 

The magnex bits were I believe originally supplied with a stiffer/solid rubber lower bush to stop excess movement and the banging you mention.

 

Your right, I have seen these for sale separately but missed out on buying one, I bought the exhaust system 2nd hand from a local lad who'd had it from new, sadly the mount didn't come with it...

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Anthony

Anthony, thanks for confirming that - straightforward enough job to do?

Easy enough, and certainly if you're mechanically able to swap the manifold you shouldn't have too much issue.

 

You need to drain the gearbox oil and remove the drivers side driveshaft, and then you can remove the old lower engine mount. If you've only got the uprated bush, you'll need to cut/press the old bush out and the new one in (large vice will suffice) or if you've bought one already pressed in, it's just a case of fitting it to the car and refitting the shaft.

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Mac Crash

Anthony,

 

regarding the bush, (see .pdf below) is this the bush that connects to the fork that I hear folks mention, and the bush is obviously surrounded by the rubber mount within the casing, yes? so if I'm understanding correctly then I need to buy the bush and mount separately as you recommend buying the standard bush and a Group N harder mount? The rest I understand, just needing to clarify what is what, thanks!

 

 

2cpqn7n.jpg

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Miles

Sorry but how much?, Thats not a Magnex bush either, they had holes around the outer edge. That looks more like a PTS version

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welshpug

You can fit without a press quite easily at home, remove the old bush by cutting through the steel casing with a hacksaw, place the bush in the freezer for a few hours, and the casting in the oven for ten minutes on 200 c, the bush will slide in very easily.

 

You will need some old oven gloves you dont mind Getting oily or some gauntlets

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Anthony

The "bush" is the complete rubber part with the metal center.

 

As per Miles comment above, that price is laughable - BakerBM sells the bush new for about £30 from memory, and frequently you'll see people selling the bush pressed into the metal casting 2nd hand on here for less than that.

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Mac Crash

Sorry but how much?, Thats not a Magnex bush either, they had holes around the outer edge. That looks more like a PTS version

 

 

As per Miles comment above, that price is laughable - BakerBM sells the bush new for about £30 from memory, and frequently you'll see people selling the bush pressed into the metal casting 2nd hand on here for less than that.

 

Guy's,

 

Sorry, The price of £251.50 was the winning bid for full Magnex exhaust system and 4 branch manifold (not my one), the seller was including the uprated bush recommended by Magnex at the time.

 

I was just messing around with adobe acrobat so you could clarify for me what is the bush and what is the mount... I'm still not clear on which part is the actual mount? Anthony is saying the rubber part with the metal centre is the bush, then where is the mount? I'm needing a standard bush with a Group N mount but need to know what I'm looking at first. The ebay seller here obviously just removed the casing when he took the system off his car.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-205-GTI-Magnex-full-stainless-steel-exhaust-system-inc-engine-mount-/281136038479?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item417503824f&nma=true&si=yWdgPYUf0ydE81k%252Bm9ij8BeSouI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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Rippthrough

The 'rubber mount' and 'bush' you have labeled are both part of the engine bush, it's one big piece, like so:


Drilledmounts2.jpg


Edited by Rippthrough

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Mac Crash

thanks for that...

 

having looked around some sites, Baker BM, AB Motorsport etc, I understand now... Peugeot Sport supply them too but are considerably more expensive...

 

This is the bush I'll probably buy...

http://spoox.co.uk/en/peugeot-205-309/3825-peugeot-306-grp-n-lower-engine-mount-torque-bush.html

 

However, do I need one of these too?

http://spoox.co.uk/en/peugeot-106/3500-lower-engine-torque-fork-bush-race-rally.html

technically meaning that the fork is bushed at both ends

 

or is this just the small centre piece of the bush sold separately?

 

thanks for your patience :)

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jackherer

The smaller one goes in the fork at the subframe end.

 

Out of all those companies I'd go for Baker BM every time.

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Miles

the Fork bush is best renewed these days, a Std one is more than good enough and stiff enough when new, I have them listed here, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-205-GTi-GTi-6-Mi16-Engine-Rear-Engine-Fork-Torque-bush-/350847229657?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item51b01fded9

 

I have the Hard rubber lower mount too, I try and avoid words like Group 'N' as it's all ******** just to get more money from people. A uprated part is just that (Rant over)

 

The mounts all come from the same supplier, Vibra Technics

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