Distributor Sensor Help

[rsta1466 4]

Hello,

 

Im in the process of installing an emerald k6 on to my car and I have got to the point where i am checking if the ECU sees the cranking signal, however when i turn the engine over the light on the ECU stays red, i have tried changing the wires around coming of the dizzy just incase i got them incorrect.

 

The way i have it connected at the moment it is,

 

Signal + (black wire) to Pin 31 on the ECU

Signal - (red Wire) to Pin 32

and the shielding connected to earth.

 

Also the setting in the k6 for the distributor sensor is set to simple distributor, is this correct or should it be 60-2 (bosch)

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Rob

[welshpug 1,621]

I'm guessing you have got an MI or similar 60-2 flywheel and a standard pug crank sensor fitted, if so then indeed you need to have it set to 60-2, and an angle of 114.5 degrees iirc for the missing tooth.

 

 

oh, hang on just re-read, I don't think you can run it like that as the ignition amp should be connected to the distributor not the ecu, you'll need a crank sensor as I mentioned above.

Edited November 18, 2012 by welshpug

[rsta1466 4]

Hi thanks for the quick reply, in the manual for the ecu it says to disconnect any ignition amps as the ecu has them built in.

 

ive just done some testing and im getting a mV signal out of the distributor sensor is this correct or should it be more?

 

once again many thanks

 

Rob

[welshpug 1,621]

sounds like it would be so much simpler to put a later coilpack and leads, bin the dizzy, get more torque and drivability.

[rsta1466 4]

that sounds a better idea to be honest but like you said earlier i would need a crank sensor wouldnt i.

 

thank you.

 

Rob

[welshpug 1,621]

yeah, all of £18 from GSF

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

that sounds a better idea to be honest but like you said earlier i would need a crank sensor wouldnt i.

And a suitable flywheel / clutch set up.

 

 

I think this could be where you can used the dizzy from a Golf GTi (16v iirc) with hall effect which the standard dizzy doesn't have.

 

g

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Yes you can use the Golf Dizzy, Had that on my old 309 and worked a treat, The std one thou will not run it as it's a std type of Dizzy

[rsta1466 4]

thanks for the info guys. Would the dizzy be off a similar age mk2 golf if i went down that route?

 

Many thanks

 

Rob

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

AFAIK, it's the 16v Mk2, maybe others but not a expert in Golf's or Jetta's of that era, Has quite a short body compared to the 205 one or 8v golf's

[rsta1466 4]

thanks for the info, I have finally got my hands on the correct dizzy (or at least i think i have), what have people used for the connector though as its different to the 205 one?

 

many thanks

 

Rob

[rsta1466 4]

I've managed to get round the conector problem but now i have another issue, i dont seem to be getting a crank signal back to the ecu i have checked the settings and they seem correct. The settings are: simple distributor and its an inductive crank signal.

 

also does the + on the dizzy mean it requires 12v or i should be getting a + signal out?

 

any help would be much appreciated

 

Rob

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

As its fed from your ecu I expect you'll be looking at a lower voltage than 12v, I know (from checking autodata) that systems such as M1.3 on the late motronic 1.9 8v's or Mi16 & ML4.1 also on the Mi16 get a 2v/1ms wave signal so you need an oscilloscope to read it.

 

I also checked autodata for any info about the golf 16v but it has nothing in the ecu data.

 

What voltage does your Emerald give for the cps output? I assume it'll be the same for using the dizzy as a signal but it might be worth giving Emerald a call to see if something isn't set correctly.

 

g

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

Emerald ECU switches the negative of the coils & injectors, the live feed is not part of the emerald loom and the live feed is taken from a ignition supply straight from the car.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

Just noticed you are trying to run a dizzy, Why ?? Coil packs are cheap and will most proberly give better BHP when set up.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Just noticed you are trying to run a dizzy, Why ?? Coil packs are cheap and will most proberly give better BHP when set up.

 

 

Because Rob doesn't have a 60-2 flywheel & crank pick up so he is using the dizzy from a Golf GTI for the hall signal which a standard dizzy can't supply.

 

g

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

He could just run a trigger wheel on the front crank pulley they only cost about £15, just needs to fabricate a bracket for the sensor. What flywheel trigger pattern do you have fitted??

Edited December 22, 2012 by Dizzee stuff

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'd go with a Dizzy over a Pulley mounted wheel, Personal thing of I hate them

 

I think I have a adaptor lead some where, It came off my old Luminition system running the same set up

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

If its well fabricated and set-up I dont see any problems. I Too would rather take the pickup from the flywheel but I see it as a better option than running a dizzy.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

What flywheel trigger pattern do you have fitted??

 

I think Rob has just the standard 205 GTI flywheel which has no timing teeth for use with an emerald ecu & doesn't want the work of removing gearbox, sourcing a flywheel (& clutch if its an Mi16 one) etc now he has a dizzy that will work with everything else as it is.

 

g

[petert 549]

I've run a dizzy setup before and to be honest it's an absolute pain. The trigger fires far too late for an aftermarket ECU, thus you need to pull the whole thing apart to correct the rotor phasing, or else you'll be firing the high tension half way between the posts. I think I used a normal ignition amp as well, so the output was converted to +12V square wave, to make the input easily readable for the ECU.

 

It's much easier to pull the gearbox off and fit a 60-2 flywheel.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

I think it would have been quicker to fit the flywheel, half a days work an done. Messing with the dizzy setup must have taken much longer already.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

It's much easier to pull the gearbox off and fit a 60-2 flywheel.

 

 

I think it would have been quicker to fit the flywheel, half a days work an done. Messing with the dizzy setup must have taken much longer already.

 

While I agree that this is the easiest & best method I'm sure Rob has his reasons for wanting to try things this way.

 

The extra cost of a suitable flywheel & new clutch to suit plus a coilpack thermostat housing, pack, leads, time & consumables to do the swap could be factors & once this is figured out & working it should be reliable enough to give the same results.

 

g

[petert 549]

The cost in getting the rotor phasing correct is considerable if you don't have the skills and equipment. Why do you need a new clutch? Just use an 8V Motronic flywheel. You can still use the existing distributor for high tension distribution.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Why do you need a new clutch? Just use an 8V Motronic flywheel.

A new clutch might be needed depending on what flywheel Rob can find, 200mm flywheels with the timing teeth aren't that common in the UK & its generally much easier to find a 215mm Mi16 one.

 

g