Condition Of 205's Rust Etc

[vtifan 26]

i have been doing a lot of poking about on my 205 and have found quite a few problem areas,the car itself is pretty good overall but as expected for a car of this age the rust is attacking it which i aim to stop or at least slow down,if it was a newer car i would maybe look for another shell as it does need a fair bit of welding ,more than i thought when i first checked car over as the frenchies and their buckets of seemsealer that seem to be applied with gallic flair to all the 205's do a great job of hiding a lot of rust/rot,but as i am doing a total resto i have stripped quite a lot of this off so far,and have found

 

1 small part of boot floor needs replaced in corner 5-6 inches square

 

2 or 3 pieces of lip on bootfloor underneath need patching in but not reached bootfloor yet

 

both rear bumper hangers and small panel need fabbed and replaced

 

 

the 2 bracers that run parrallel to the rear wheel housing and attach to bootfloor are pretty soft and would be best to cut out and replace the rear section of these, there is a small hole in bootfloor above one bracer so best to remove anyway to get a good repair

 

small hole under rear seat that was under large blob of seamsealer

 

both sills will need replacing was small bit of rot at rear but are rusty inside and its only a matter of time before rot sets in

 

inner sill behind rear quarter up to door needs replacing about 4inch high rust creep from sill,but sill to floor is very good past door with only a small bit at front jacking point where some clown has jacked car up in wrong place and split seamsealer,the inner inner sill at tank is solid though

 

couple of very small patches on sill to floor area inside very minor in rear corners

 

pass seat mount needs small patch underneath 4x2 maybe under spot welds

 

small part of rear quarter in front of rear wheel needs repaired

 

front is pretty sound though needs jack holder removed and small patch but thats about it really,will prob fit new front panel as well

 

that is me being pretty anal and i probably could have got away with replacing rear of sill and painting to get through mot but i want the car to be rust free and totally solid,seems quite a big list but i really believe that if i wanted a better shell i would have to pay top top money and theres no point just to rip it apart for my plans,as i bet that most 205's are suffering from the same level of rust as mine just that some owners are blissfully ignorant,my car has only done 89k and has been well looked after judging by the receipts for work done but its amazing what seam sealer hides,so really a warning to buyers give the car a thorough check over and a good poke at all the areas mentioned above as you never know whats lurking,i would recomend for a wee winter project to get underneath with a wire wheel and get any rust treated before it gets terminal,cheers guys

[ScoobyJawa 22]

Funny you should put this up. Got first chance to look at my newly acquired sorrento this weekend, 2 holes in boot either side, about 2-3cm x 1cm and same under the pass rear seat where that seamsealer is too!! Looks like defo weak spots.

 

Not sure the best way to fix it but I think a few small weld patches should do the job....

[Anthony 1,000]

Even before I looked at the location I'd already guessed that this was a Scottish car.

 

I don't know what it is - be it the damper, colder climate and the increaed use of road salt in winter, or perhaps a bad reaction to Irnbru - but every 205 I've seen that has spent the majority of its life in Scotland or the Northern English counties has typically been far worse than average in terms of rust, often in areas that you don't tend to see very often on cars "down South" like rotten floor pans.

 

Maybe it's just coincidence, but does seem to be the case more often than not.

 

Many of the areas mentioned are increasingly common though, although you've drawn the wrong conclusion in parts - the rust under the rears seats for example rusts up from underneath and is if anything a lack of seam sealer that causes the issue, as water gets in between the two layers of spot welded metal below the rear seats and slowly eats away at it. Drop the beam and fuel tank and the cause is very clear.

 

On which note, if you've not yet dropped the tank, judging by the rest of the rust I'd assume that you're likely to find more with the tank out of the way, as they seem to suffer particularly to the sides of the tank / inner sill and in front of the tank / back of the rear footwells.

 

Also, if you've not yet checked, look at the inner wing seams above the front wheel arches (these tend to rust and splay apart, eventually leading to a hole in the engine bay) and the front headlight panel, which have a habit of rusting all over the place, particularly if the car has had a front ender at some point. It's typically well hidden until you remove the headlights and start poking...

 

There's quite a few threads on here showing repairs people have made to rusty (in 205 terms atleast - nothing compared to similar era Fords etc!) cars and made solid, long-lasting repairs. M@tt, Leet205 and Cameron spring to mind, but there's been several others.

[vtifan 26]

Even before I looked at the location I'd already guessed that this was a Scottish car.

 

I don't know what it is - be it the damper, colder climate and the increaed use of road salt in winter, or perhaps a bad reaction to Irnbru - but every 205 I've seen that has spent the majority of its life in Scotland or the Northern English counties has typically been far worse than average in terms of rust, often in areas that you don't tend to see very often on cars "down South" like rotten floor pans.

 

Maybe it's just coincidence, but does seem to be the case more often than not.

 

Many of the areas mentioned are increasingly common though, although you've drawn the wrong conclusion in parts - the rust under the rears seats for example rusts up from underneath and is if anything a lack of seam sealer that causes the issue, as water gets in between the two layers of spot welded metal below the rear seats and slowly eats away at it. Drop the beam and fuel tank and the cause is very clear.

 

On which note, if you've not yet dropped the tank, judging by the rest of the rust I'd assume that you're likely to find more with the tank out of the way, as they seem to suffer particularly to the sides of the tank / inner sill and in front of the tank / back of the rear footwells.

 

Also, if you've not yet checked, look at the inner wing seams above the front wheel arches (these tend to rust and splay apart, eventually leading to a hole in the engine bay) and the front headlight panel, which have a habit of rusting all over the place, particularly if the car has had a front ender at some point. It's typically well hidden until you remove the headlights and start poking...

 

There's quite a few threads on here showing repairs people have made to rusty (in 205 terms atleast - nothing compared to similar era Fords etc!) cars and made solid, long-lasting repairs. M@tt, Leet205 and Cameron spring to mind, but there's been several others.

my car spent most of its life in london mate was sold to a scottish owner about 4 years ago by just gti's,i think the 1st scot cherished and pampered it,but then guy i bought it from drove it for about a year as a daily until it failed mot for rear beam and he just parked it up and left it outside for about ten months,until i saved it,i know what you mean about the old fords as i used to have rs turbos,capris mk1 mk2 escorts,and it was a deep structural rot on them,have had mk3 mk4 escorts that were rotten almost all the way around the floor. bulkhead,wheelhouses,inner wings and that was at less than 10 years old,i once had a mk4 escort that had had a battery leak when newish and at 5 years old the inner wing had totally rusted away from the bulkhead it had about 3 spotwelds on the bottom holding it together ,scary

[maturin23 10]

I sent my car off to JackHerer in the spring to have a look at some small bubbles above the rear window.

 

On investigation there was pretty severe internal rust - repair involved cutting a substantial chunk of the roof rail out.

When Kieran went looking for a replacement section the 2/3 shells that he cut into were exactly the same inside, despite little or no external signs. A fabricated section had to be used instead.

 

Looks like that crack in the seam sealer we all have eventually lets water in with obvious consequences. Perhaps could be the next 'hot spot' we'll start seeing?

 

This is on a (phase 1.5) car that's otherwise pretty good for rust, inner wings sound, boot/floor pan solid etc

[SurGie 54]

I blame the sealant guy at the factory, probably had a bad day or was told to rush the job, my car (of which is now totally rust free after 4 years) never had blobs of sealant, car was generally in good nick compared to what i have seen. Where the rust was, was where the sealant had either been broken/damaged or was applied incorrectly.

 

If you need any tips let me know, i have now finished the total reconditioning of my project, and not used a quick spray of paint either, it will outlast 15 years before rust creeps in, if ever again, winter driving too.

 

No easy feat but can be done with a strong will.

 

From this >

 

 

To this >

 

 

To this >

 

 

I used a roller and brush to get into every nook n cranny using a surface tolerant 2k paint. The floor pan has also had the same treatment. I have also applied another 2k type of paint then top coat.

Edited September 5, 2012 by SurGie

[vtifan 26]

I blame the sealant guy at the factory, probably had a bad day or was told to rush the job, my car (of which is now totally rust free after 4 years) never had blobs of sealant, car was generally in good nick compared to what i have seen. Where the rust was, was where the sealant had either been broken/damaged or was applied incorrectly.

 

If you need any tips let me know, i have now finished the total reconditioning of my project, and not used a quick spray of paint either, it will outlast 15 years before rust creeps in, if ever again, winter driving too.

 

No easy feat but can be done with a strong will.

 

From this >

 

 

To this >

 

 

To this >

 

 

I used a roller and brush to get into every nook n cranny using a surface tolerant 2k paint. The floor pan has also had the same treatment. I have also applied another 2k type of paint then top coat.

pretty much what i am in the process of doing surgie,what did you use ?i am using grinder and wire wheels,drill and wire wheel for awkward bits,cutting out and replacing any steel thats too far gone,treating all the minor rust with fe121 rust converter,then using 121 epoxy mastic paint 2 coats with brush and mini roller,then going to use tiger seal brushed around all the joints,when it goes along to my mates for paint it will be getting a major coating of stonechip underneath then i will give it another top coat of 2k gloss,going to treat all cavities with watered down fe121 rustkiller then a good quality cavity wax,if you are going to all that trouble theres no point cutting corners ,like i said most 205's will be at pretty much the same level of corrosion in many places yours looked exactly like mine underneath, and i reckon 1-2 more winters and mine would be beyond saving in its current state,looks like you are doing a good job there mate its a lot of work but well worth it in the long run

[SurGie 54]

Thanks mate.

 

http://www.jotun.com/

 

This is what i used, 3 coats roller n brushed on. If its good enough for sea boats and bridges then its good enough for a cars chassis. I then used Raptor truck bed lining, it does say also good for chassis work on the lable. Truck beds get a lot of abuse so if its worth doing, its worth doing as well as you can. I applied 5 coats in total not inc the weak basecoat colouring.

 

I used a number of grinder and drill brushes, thin wire brushes to get into the hard to reach edges etc. The jotun can cope with small amounts of unreachable rust sealing it in from air and water. Read the tech sheets for more info, very easy to use. There was small amounts of rust i could not reach, which has now been sealed in.

 

No need to use that pretty much useless rust converter or sealant with the Jotun primer, it will seal the minimum rust in like boats and vessels get without the use of sandblasting them like the tech sheet says.

 

While i was there i did the inner boot and seating areas and rear quarter of which wasn't that bad.

[harryskid 193]

That looks like good stuff, ships and boats are always in salt water, so i'll keep this stuff in mind for the future!

[SurGie 54]

I forgot to mention, i keyed the whole steel surface with 60 grade wet and dry paper, this will give more longer lasting adhesion, this stuff sticks to almost anything, even more with a good key.

 

Here is the tech sheet, i couldn't find it on the android phone http://www.jotun.com/Jotun/Paints/20020020.nsf/wvwProductDatabase/8B7ADD42CF64641DC1256A6B0043EE55/$file/TDS%20-%20Jotamastic%2087%20-%20English%20(uk)%20-%20Issued.21.12.2011.pdf

 

Just make sure you get good coverage, its got a lot of solids inside it, that's what the 87 means, % of solids. Because of the high solid content it can be applied in any thickness, so good for filling in bits and bobs etc. The thickness also covers the steel edges well which is where the rust always seems to start from.

 

The hardener comes in std grade or winter grade, so even with low temps, it will still cure. It also says leave it at least 10 hours with std hardener before another coat is applied inc other 2k paints etc, as in wet on wet almost. This is how i applied mine so no need to key between coats.

 

I used one of those measuring syringe things to get the correct amount of hardener then mix inside the jug for small amounts, the hardener is like thick syrup, so its was hard to plunge it into the syringe. If you want to thin it down always mix the high quality 2k thinners (which i used) after the hardener has been mixed in. The std type hardener has a pot life of 2 hours, this was not enough for me so i used a little 2k thinners and it kept the going off of it to a later time. The thinner the lower sag and takes longer to cure.

 

Fully read the tech sheet and you wont go wrong. If rollering use a good face mask but i guess even though it does not contain iso's an air fed mask would be the 'safest' method when spraying it.

[MiniGibbo 142]

They say cars that live near the sea always rot faster but I'm not sure..

 

I agree with Anthony, every car I've known from Scotland has been rotted to death.

 

Former member on here Dino, had both a evo and m3 from Scotland and both had terminal rot as an example.

[vtifan 26]

I forgot to mention, i keyed the whole steel surface with 60 grade wet and dry paper, this will give more longer lasting adhesion, this stuff sticks to almost anything, even more with a good key.

 

Here is the tech sheet, i couldn't find it on the android phone http://www.jotun.com/Jotun/Paints/20020020.nsf/wvwProductDatabase/8B7ADD42CF64641DC1256A6B0043EE55/$file/TDS%20-%20Jotamastic%2087%20-%20English%20(uk)%20-%20Issued.21.12.2011.pdf

 

Just make sure you get good coverage, its got a lot of solids inside it, that's what the 87 means, % of solids. Because of the high solid content it can be applied in any thickness, so good for filling in bits and bobs etc. The thickness also covers the steel edges well which is where the rust always seems to start from.

 

The hardener comes in std grade or winter grade, so even with low temps, it will still cure. It also says leave it at least 10 hours with std hardener before another coat is applied inc other 2k paints etc, as in wet on wet almost. This is how i applied mine so no need to key between coats.

 

I used one of those measuring syringe things to get the correct amount of hardener then mix inside the jug for small amounts, the hardener is like thick syrup, so its was hard to plunge it into the syringe. If you want to thin it down always mix the high quality 2k thinners (which i used) after the hardener has been mixed in. The std type hardener has a pot life of 2 hours, this was not enough for me so i used a little 2k thinners and it kept the going off of it to a later time. The thinner the lower sag and takes longer to cure.

 

Fully read the tech sheet and you wont go wrong. If rollering use a good face mask but i guess even though it does not contain iso's an air fed mask would be the 'safest' method when spraying it.

its the same stuff that i have mate just a different brand,would always key any surface that i am painting even though it says can be applied over wire brushed steel,this is what they have just painted the forth rail bridge with,for all you southerners it is a 100+ year old iron bridge that they have been continiously painting for about 100 years,start at one end work to the other go back to the start and do it all again,now after doing it with epoxy mastic they reckon it wont need another coat for 15 years with only a minor maintainence team left instead of the massive squad of painters,abseilers and scaffolders that they used to have,i'm thinking if its good enough for 100 year old iron in the middle of the firth of forth then its good enough for ma wee pug

[Anthony 1,000]

Epoxy Mastic is what I did my 205 with, but it's too early to know whether it's truly effective.

[SurGie 54]

Is it a 2k epoxy ?

 

The main reason i used the above stuff because boats and vessels use it in the sea, with their ballist tanks too that suck in salt water to help get the boat lower in the water to give it some boyoncy when its too light and high in the water. It has good abrasion risistance and says is excellent against water, both salt and fresh.

 

The raptor bed liner i used is also water proof , i have used the rust converter stuff months before i started and found whilst doing the overhaul that rust started underneith it, so wont use that again.

 

The Jotun is also flexible too, very tough once cured, tried to remove it by hand using a chisel and did nothing to it.

 

After some research i found that ferry ships use a sacrofishal ano metal bars along the ferrys hull, they are made from zinc which is more reactive than steel so the corrosion attacks them first instead of the steel hull. This sort of changed my mind using a zinc 1k paint which is what i was going to use.

 

If the stuff you are using isn't 2k then it wont last the 15 years it says it can. Check both tech sheets on both paints to see which will be the best to use before you start. Please post the tech sheet of your mastic primer for others to read and make their own mind up on which to use if they are doing the same sort of thing.

[SurGie 54]

Epoxy Mastic is what I did my 205 with, but it's too early to know whether it's truly effective.

 

After looking at the info of this product, it appears to be 95% the same product as the Jota87. With the 87, I have recently checked over a car after ten years it was first applied, its the same as what mine looks like now, i have no doubt both products are capable of lasting 15 years, especially when only using the car for weekends etc.

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

Just for future reference for those of us that think 205 rust is bad, here is some pics of my 206 GT im rebuilding at the min. The metals used in these cars new was recycled and it just shows now 12 years later. If you set a magnet to the panels it sticks vaguely meaning a mixture of metals, as I orignially thought the bonnet was aluminium. I put 2 new sills on and the pockets were fabricated. Only reason im saving it, is because it was a 206 wrc homologation car. So just be wary when looking at 206's!!

 

 

 

 

 

[welshpug 1,621]

kinell!!!

 

English steel at its best! good old Coventry!

Edited October 3, 2012 by welshpug

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

kinell!!!

 

English steel at its best! good old Coventry!

 

Yep, doesn't help Mei when there is little protection underneath. I remember pdi'ing them when new and thinking there is no paint underneath them just looked like a light primer.

[DamirGTI 323]

Exceptional , 205 GTI iron oxide limited edition :

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=97351&hl=rust&st=0

 

... and i fixed it successfully , was an really hard job ... so much rust so much paches to do , metal forming , bending etc. etc. .

 

Turned up really good , myself im really satisfied with the quality of repair .. even now after a 6 or 7 years ?! (can't remember) after i did the repair all the places are still as the day when i've fixed it .

 

Damir

[ScoobyJawa 22]

Holy cow @ that 206