Installing Mp3.1, A Further Update

[welshpug 1,621]

following on from this topic

 

http://forum.205gtid...pic=72242&st=60

 

4.5 years on and about 10k miles, its recently had a mild Piper cam installed and a narrowed gti6 cam pulley to set the timing, along with a magnex 4 branch and most importantly, a lambda boss.

Annoyingly since fitting the cam its always hunted slightly cold and warm, and often just stalls on you for fun when dipping the clutch.

 

the fitment of the lambda boss was following this thread

 

http://forum.205gtid...ic=118332&st=20

 

plus lots of searching for MP3.1 data elsewhere which dug this up

 

http://peugeot.mains...605/index.shtml

 

an MP3.1 on an XU10J2 with a lambda and an Idle control valve, which gave all the relevant pinouts for the ecu and lambda plus, and the ICV.

 

 

here, an old jetronic loom donates a couple of wires as the Motronic MP3.1 ECU plug used the same Terminals as the old Jetronic LE2.

 

 

 

 

 

added a wire to pin 8, and also 33 and 34 for the ICV.

 

you also need to add a switched live for the heater element in the Lambda, so I added a wire to the fuel pump/injection/ignition double relay, using the fuel pump feed wire from pin 1, and also an earth for the earth side.

 

for the ICV you'll also need a 12v switched feed which I will also take from the relay.

 

bit of jiggery pokery and I now have a lovely idle and no hunting, and that's only the lambda fitted so far

 

will update once I get the ICV on.

Edited March 31, 2012 by welshpug

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

NIckR did this when he originally installed MP3.1 to his old SBC 1.9 GTI-S but never got it working 100% before he sold it on.

 

I'm not going to take it any further than I have with the lambda, its idles perectly, doesn't stall (even from cold with the sad removed) & passes MOT emissions easily. It would pass a CAT test afaik.

 

g

[welshpug 1,621]

No stalling here at all either, haven't turned the idle down properly though but given how smooth its running I doubt it ever will.

 

Will see how it behaves without the SAD, would be great to tidy up the engine bay further might be time to get a donor loom and do a proper layout, maybe evne place the ecu in its standard position.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

My Idle speed was set pretty low, approx 850-900rpm iirc but never caused any problem with it stalling.

 

I used the 405 SRi Mp3.1 loom & have shortened several wires to make it a nicer fit & it keeps the ecu in the standard place under the dash.

 

It's going into a different shell soon so there will be pics floating around when its starts to happen.

 

g

[JoshGti 8]

Good to hear you guys have got on alright with the lambda! I gave up in the end and sold on the zx 3.1 setup I had but kept the spare ecu I have, along with the zx inlet etc. May make up a loom when I get a chance and reinstall it all. You have a link to the lambda your using weLshpug? For future reference? And how far down have you placed your lambda? I'd be interested in a picture?

[welshpug 1,621]

It was just a random Bosch 4 wire I had lying about, due to the length of the lead I think it must have been a 405 one, I placed it just on the collector of my Magnex 4 branch.

 

excuse the welding, my first ever bit of SS Mig!

 

 

Edited April 24, 2012 by welshpug

[JoshGti 8]

Ive welded worse dont worry! Similar place to where I welded the boss on my standard downpipe, I'll have to get the wiring back out and give it a go when the weather sorts itself out.

[bl4ck clio 0]

following on from this topic

 

http://forum.205gtid...pic=72242&st=60

 

4.5 years on and about 10k miles, its recently had a mild Piper cam installed and a narrowed gti6 cam pulley to set the timing, along with a magnex 4 branch and most importantly, a lambda boss.

Annoyingly since fitting the cam its always hunted slightly cold and warm, and often just stalls on you for fun when dipping the clutch.

 

the fitment of the lambda boss was following this thread

 

http://forum.205gtid...ic=118332&st=20

 

plus lots of searching for MP3.1 data elsewhere which dug this up

 

http://peugeot.mains...605/index.shtml

 

an MP3.1 on an XU10J2 with a lambda and an Idle control valve, which gave all the relevant pinouts for the ecu and lambda plus, and the ICV.

 

 

here, an old jetronic loom donates a couple of wires as the Motronic MP3.1 ECU plug used the same Terminals as the old Jetronic LE2.

 

 

 

 

 

added a wire to pin 8, and also 33 and 34 for the ICV.

 

you also need to add a switched live for the heater element in the Lambda, so I added a wire to the fuel pump/injection/ignition double relay, using the fuel pump feed wire from pin 1, and also an earth for the earth side.

 

for the ICV you'll also need a 12v switched feed which I will also take from the relay.

 

bit of jiggery pokery and I now have a lovely idle and no hunting, and that's only the lambda fitted so far

 

will update once I get the ICV on.

 

lovely thread but i still confuse about ICV set up.

there are 4 pin on ICV.....where i have to attach every pin.

pin 1 on ICV to ... pin ECU,

pin 2 to ... pin ECU

 

so do with lambda sensor.

there are 4 pin too. i confuse how too attach pin from ECU to where on lambda sensor.

 

very helpfull if you can give me an illustrate.

 

 

ps:sorry if my english is bad.I'm come from Indonesia.

[welshpug 1,621]

only 3 pins on the icv, two to ecu, and one 12v+

 

with the lambda, one is earth, two to ecu, and one 12v+

[bl4ck clio 0]

only 3 pins on the icv, two to ecu, and one 12v+

 

with the lambda, one is earth, two to ecu, and one 12v+

 

i use ICV with P/N 1920N1. it's have 4 pins as i know.

like this one

idle regulator by bl4ck clio, on Flickr

 

and ICV with 3 pins come from what series?

 

first, my engine is XU9J2 with bosch motronic MP3.1

and then I swap with XU10J4 from peugeot 406 but still use old ECU.

i have a problem when cold or A/C on...the idle is very low even off.

[welshpug 1,621]

You need to use a bosch 3 wire ICV, you'll find them on cars with a bosch ecu, like 306 S16, 406 8vTurbo etc.

 

 

that looks like an XU10J2 inlet manifold? you are best to use the 406 ecu.

Edited May 15, 2012 by welshpug

[bl4ck clio 0]

You need to use a bosch 3 wire ICV, you'll find them on cars with a bosch ecu, like 306 S16, 406 8vTurbo etc.

 

 

that looks like an XU10J2 inlet manifold? you are best to use the 406 ecu.

 

exactly, XU10J2 stock from 1995 405 STi called here.

 

only 306 with XU7P, 405 with XU9J2 and XU10J2 and 406 with XU10J4R engine are available in my country.

the only one use bosch ECU is come from XU9J2 but it's only use SAD.

other use magnetti marelli MM8P which i knew, so the ICV from magnetti marelli which have 4 pins.

here is very hard to find imported parts.tax and other cost will be very expensive.

 

406 ECU?yes of course.

but any idea how wiring 4 pins ICV (MM,valeo) to MP3.1?

make me dizzy ohhh.....

[bl4ck clio 0]

and this is XU10J4 installed om my 405 phase 2

mesin by bl4ck clio, on Flickr

 

any idea how to get idle up for cold start and aircon in this situation (XU10J4 with MP3.1)?

[welshpug 1,621]

The 306 or 406 ECU and fuel injection components would be best to use with that engine.

 

 

 

The use of MP3.1 on the XU9JA is mainly because the mapping is very close if not exactly right as the donor engine and components are close enough, you can't use the 4 wire ICV with it.

Edited May 15, 2012 by welshpug

[bl4ck clio 0]

The 306 or 406 ECU and fuel injection components would be best to use with that engine.

 

 

 

The use of MP3.1 on the XU9JA is mainly because the mapping is very close if not exactly right as the donor engine and components are close enough, you can't use the 4 wire ICV with it.

 

ok.i see.

but how about lambda sensor?could it be install or not?(in my car)

 

do you have information about MM8P pin connected?ex pin 1 for......, 2 for.......

i need it..

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Does the XU10J4 not usually have MP3.2 with an icv already fitted, that would be the best system to fit to your car for reliability imo, if you can get it.

 

Running a 16v engine on an 8v ecu isn't a good thing without a remap, you risk putting holes in pistson so I understand due to timing differences.

 

g

[bl4ck clio 0]

Does the XU10J4 not usually have MP3.2 with an icv already fitted, that would be the best system to fit to your car for reliability imo, if you can get it.

 

Running a 16v engine on an 8v ecu isn't a good thing without a remap, you risk putting holes in pistson so I understand due to timing differences.

 

g

 

oh sorry i forgot that XU10J4 has MP5.2.

XU10J2 has MM8P.

that's the point, hard to find 406 ECU from junkyard here, even if available the price is not cheap enough.

the wiring hard to find too

 

 

are remapping can calibrate about ignition timming?

one person here can do remap, it cost about $300.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

oh sorry i forgot that XU10J4 has MP5.2.

XU10J2 has MM8P.

that's the point, hard to find 406 ECU from junkyard here, even if available the price is not cheap enough.

the wiring hard to find too

405 or 406?

 

There is some info about the MM8P on here, I think I've uploaded some wiring diagrams for it before but not the full ecu pinout afaik.

 

are remapping can calibrate about ignition timming?

one person here can do remap, it cost about $300.

A remap can adjust the timing to suit a 16v from an 8v yes but probbably not as good as finding the right ecu & wiring if possible.

 

What ecu have you currently got fitted?

 

g

[bl4ck clio 0]

405 or 406?

 

There is some info about the MM8P on here, I think I've uploaded some wiring diagrams for it before but not the full ecu pinout afaik.

 

 

A remap can adjust the timing to suit a 16v from an 8v yes but probbably not as good as finding the right ecu & wiring if possible.

 

What ecu have you currently got fitted?

 

g

 

only one variant.

1994 405 STi XU9J2 bosch MP3.1

1995-1997 405 STi XU10J2 MM8P

1996-1999 406 ST XU10J4 MP5.2

 

car I have is 1994 XU9J2. then I swap with 406 engine, but I still use MP3.1.

 

for a moment and about my money...i will stay with this ECU. I just wanna activated the ICV with 4 pin (cause ICV bosch 3 pins not available here).is it possible?

I will upgrade with MP5.2 + wiring loom if my bugjet available.

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

I do't think MP3.1 will support the four pin icv, the 106 rallye used MP3.1 with a two pin icv afaik but nothing used MP3.1 with a four pin that I know of.

 

Every car using MP3.1 I know of has used either the SAD or a three pin icv.

 

Couldn't you get the MP5.2 from the 406 easier rather than struggle to fit a four pin icv.

 

g

[bl4ck clio 0]

I do't think MP3.1 will support the four pin icv, the 106 rallye used MP3.1 with a two pin icv afaik but nothing used MP3.1 with a four pin that I know of.

 

Every car using MP3.1 I know of has used either the SAD or a three pin icv.

 

Couldn't you get the MP5.2 from the 406 easier rather than struggle to fit a four pin icv.

 

g

 

yeah....thx for the reply.

i will try to find 406' ones.

[bl4ck clio 0]

try to find bosch three pin icv......finally found from bmw m52 engine.

added wires to pin 33 and 34 ECU...plug them to both side icv's pin.

+ 12v from fuel pump relay....plug to centre pin.

 

the ICV not function at all.

try to trace wires from ecu to icv.....good connection.

take a multimeter........test the pinout 33/34 + 12v from battery, read 0 volt.

 

strange issue.

 

is my BOSCH motronic mp3.1 (0 261 200 213) not support ICV?

 

any advice will be appriciate.

[welshpug 1,621]

I havent gone any further with the ICV installation than adding the wires, though I do have what IIRC is an S16 ICV to try.

[bl4ck clio 0]

I havent gone any further with the ICV installation than adding the wires, though I do have what IIRC is an S16 ICV to try.

 

i don't think the problem come from ICV

but how about signal from the ecu, especially pinout 33 and 34?

from other source, i found that mp 3.1 which come from citroen/peugeot not support ICV. pins are available, but no signal.

ex mp 3.1 from bmw which support ICV.

 

if you have time, please spend a little to check the signal,

my ecu which not support, or all cit/peug mp 3.1....

 

S16 ICV means 4 pins, same as come from 406 16v?

I have one.....

[welshpug 1,621]

no, S16 uses 3 pin bosch ICV.