Opinions On 6Speed 205's

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I've always like the idea of putting the 6speed box in a 205 and am well aware of the reduced steering lock issues.

 

I'm after experiences of what its like day to day and whether its not actually that bad or a PITA!

 

I like the idea of slightly longer high gear, I've read its a good box and well suited to the engine. Whilst the engine is dropped out the Rallye for a couple weeks its a good time to give it a go, I assume you use a BE1 lift up system for reverse?

 

Thanks, Ali

[Baz 421]

ZF? Yes please!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

3rd gear is weak, other than that the Ratios are good, Having only driven one round the block even then it was a PITA as turning right had to be timed or if you had to go round a car etc then you would have to take another shunt at it, The box is bad enough in a 306 coming from a normal car

[petert 549]

A 205 with a strong 16V is light enough and has enough torque that it doesn't need a 6 speed. Whilst the ratios are good, the long cwp detracts from it's real potential.

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

I agree with what Peter says, I even believe the 306 doesn't really need the ratios that close, having owned a Xsara VTS with the 5 speed box, the engine has more than enough mid range grunt to pull the longer ratios, in the 306 I just find it annoying to be pulling gears all the time.

 

I would suggest driving the 6 speed box in a 306 first if you can.

[Anthony 1,000]

I like the ratios for a road car, but the steering lock is dreadful frankly - it's bad enough (although tolerable) in a 306, but in a 205, it's hopeless.

 

To give you some idea, I can't technically lawfully drive a 205 with a '6 box to my house because the lack of steering lock means that the only way I can do so is to go the wrong way round some of the mini-roundabouts - not just cut them a bit but so that the car never actually goes on the "right" side of the roundabout. Things like multi-story carparks can be challenging - you fairly quickly learn to take a wide line and adapt to the lack of lock, although even then you come unstuck sometimes and look like an idiot having to reverse back and take another bite.

 

As above, I would suggest trying to get a drive in a 306 GTi-6 first of all - if the lack of lock annoys you in that, then don't even consider it in a 205.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Steering lock is really that bad!? I remember driving my brothers old 6' and the lock wasn't great (turning around in a lane!)

 

Thanks for the comments, I hadn't read I huge amount about 6speeds in 205's so thats made up my mind

[welshpug 1,621]

yup tis quite bad, a good 195 tyre will rub the steel end casing of a 5 speed BE box, the 6 speed box is 55mm longer....

[Anthony 1,000]

Steering lock is really that bad!? I remember driving my brothers old 6' and the lock wasn't great (turning around in a lane!)

In my eyes it is that bad, yes.

 

Like I said, I like the ratios and am not too fussed about the weaker internals given that I hardly own a gearbox shredding torque monster, and I would run one on my own 205... if it wasn't for the steering lock which I personally find intolerable on a road car. If it was only as bad as a 306 then I'd still consider it, but on a 205 it is considerably worse - as said, every day situations like mini-roundabouts, multi story car parks and even swinging into a parking space all become an issue to varying degrees whereas they're not (really) in a 306.

 

That said of course, there are quite a few people on here that have 6 speed 205's and get on just fine with them and I don't doubt that after a while you'll get used to it and adapt your driving or simply learn to avoid certain situations/places to get around the limitations.

[buchanan84 1]

how much does the 309 front suspension (wider track) compensate for the reduced lock?

[Anthony 1,000]

Pretty much nothing in honesty - it's only ~10mm wider per side, and that's only at the bottom as the top of the strut doesn't move.

[jackherer 543]

In my eyes it is that bad, yes.

 

I hate to disagree but I drive a six speed 205 regularly and after I hit the box once with the tyre I felt where the end of the lock was and never did it again and it has never bothered me at all and I've never had to take a corner twice. Admittedly it has some unusual geometry (306 hubs, 309 arms and eccentric top mounts) but I can't see that making much (if any) difference.

[GLPoomobile 958]

May I make a suggestion for the benefit of anyone considering a 6 speed box?

 

Perhaps if somebody could confirm how much lock you can safely apply on a 205, when using the 6 speed box (and with a standard 205 GTI rack of course), then anyone thinking of doing it could have a practise driving about and mentally limiting themselves to using no more lock than that, to see how they get on with it. It's obviously not as good as experiencing it for real but would be of some benefit to anyone who doesn't have access to another 6 speed 205 or 306 to have a test drive in.

[dcc 855]

I have driven a 6speed 205 and can safely say you must lose atleast 30degree of turn, if not more, due to wheel camber loss on lock.

[Atari Boy 11]

This is an interesting thread as I too have always itched for a '6 box. I can't even offer any logic to the idea, just always fancied one. I know I would be seriously pi$$ed off if once fitted I could not use the car fully.

I like GLP's suggestion of measuring how restrictive it would become lock wise.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I don't know whether it would be a massive novelty or not!

 

As I said earlier, do people just use BE1 lift up reverse set ups or the 306 one?

[BenC 6]

 

I like the idea of slightly longer high gear, I've read its a good box and well suited to the engine. Whilst the engine is dropped out the Rallye for a couple weeks its a good time to give it a go, I assume you use a BE1 lift up system for reverse?

 

 

Slight change of subject, but why's the engine out the rallye again...?

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Battery tray needs powdercoating, The exhaust manifold melted a bulkhead bung whilst on the ramp so I need to replace that with a metal one and put some reflective heat insulation on the bulk head. Also powdercoating the Servo (amongst other bits and bobs)

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Admittedly it has some unusual geometry (306 hubs, 309 arms and eccentric top mounts) but I can't see that making much (if any) difference.

 

I had this set up for quite a while and adds at least an inch + either side compared to a std 205 Gti setup. So the will give a bit more clearance on right lock using a 6 box

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Without power steering - no thanks

 

I had a GTi6 for years, and the lock on that didn't escape your memory for long. There was one mini roundabout I had to use to go back on myself to get to work, and in other cars I could swing round it. In the 6, I would practically take the front off anyone waiting on the left for me to get it nice and wide, and would only miss the kerb the other side by a few inches. Take it wrong, or have a car over the line waiting for you, and it was 3 point turn time.

 

I would absolutely hate to drive a 205 with one.

 

The VTS is a good box, So I will probably swap my 1.6 box for that when I scrap that soon.

[rallyeash 155]

Battery tray needs powdercoating, The exhaust manifold melted a bulkhead bung whilst on the ramp so I need to replace that with a metal one and put some reflective heat insulation on the bulk head. Also powdercoating the Servo (amongst other bits and bobs)

 

 

your taking the engine out for doing those little jobs!!!!!

 

manifold isnt a hard job to get out, neither is the servo, might need to jack the engine up off its offside mount and unbolt the underneath one but thats about it.

 

never found lock an issue in my 306 gti-6 tbh, although i do drive a company double cab pickup everyday and the lock on them is crap!

Edited January 12, 2012 by rallyeash

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I say take out, drop it on the floor, may not even unplug the loom! I really don't want to bleed the brakes again so taking the m/s off is not ideal. Also I will be riviting the new bulkhead bung on so the engine needs to be dropped to get to it. And a cv boot has split so the shafts will be coming out.

[Anthony 1,000]

As I said earlier, do people just use BE1 lift up reverse set ups or the 306 one?

Use the 205 BE1 lift up cable setup.

 

You don't strictly speaking have to have it fitted, but I wouldn't recommend not doing so - 5th/6th and reverse are quite close together on the gate and without the lockout to push against, it's easy to go too far over (especially with the typical 205 sloppy gear change) and either struggle to find 5th or rather too easily find reverse when you actually wanted 6th...

 

(if you're wondering, it just grinds and protests loudly rather than actually engaging! )

[Atari Boy 11]

Am I right in thinking the VTS does not have the lock issues as it occupies less space?

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Am I right in thinking the VTS does not have the lock issues as it occupies less space?

 

Yes that correct, that what I'm using at the moment and it seems a good box, with 14inch wheels it just feels like its labouring a little at crusing speed.

 

I didn't know you could use it without the lift up, but I would put it in though. I'm seriously thinking about this now, would like to give it a shot and see what its like. Its not like I drive it around town or park in multi stories often. Its only a summer car so will keep the VTS box and can always swop back.

 

I assume I just need to do the normal selector arm, release arm and diff change on the 6' box and use the MI16 clutch I am at the moment?