Megaquirt On Standard 19 Gti Lump

[205_sunderland 4]

Ive been told there very cheap now and the idea of being able to make a more efficient standard running platform but converting to efi ,ditch the afm but at same time keep engine looking standard (hollow it out) really appeals to me.It means i can build the head i want over the next year aswell and then could map her up to 150-155bhp with some accompanying mods but keep the engine looking like it rolled out the factory near enough.

 

1) how hard is it to fit these fellas

2) whats the cost for everything all parts needed (second hand would be fine too as long as its ok condition and does not cause a problems?)

3) has anyone already done it.

4) can the standard fuel rail be maintained and all other parts, im aware id have to fit and hide some parts like lambda and map sensor but like i said i want to just have a standard lump that can be fine tuned so up with the modern times.

 

cheers mick

[hcmini1989 16]

Ive been told there very cheap now and the idea of being able to make a more efficient standard running platform but converting to efi ,ditch the afm but at same time keep engine looking standard (hollow it out) really appeals to me.It means i can build the head i want over the next year aswell and then could map her up to 150-155bhp with some accompanying mods but keep the engine looking like it rolled out the factory near enough.

 

1) how hard is it to fit these fellas

2) whats the cost for everything all parts needed (second hand would be fine too as long as its ok condition and does not cause a problems?)

3) has anyone already done it.

4) can the standard fuel rail be maintained and all other parts, im aware id have to fit and hide some parts like lambda and map sensor but like i said i want to just have a standard lump that can be fine tuned so up with the modern times.

 

cheers mick

Its a difficult one to say how cheap tbh.The range of megasquirts varies so much so dependent on cost id guess you could get one to run the 1,9 lumo for around 200-250 .Dont buy secondhand its a minefield look on diyautotune for one weather it be a kit or complete one.Id allso advise you do some reading up on these aswell because you will always be fettaling.

 

As for lamba you dont need one but they help in the mapping thats all .So if your getting it mapped for you find out weather they have there own wideband.It would siave you pi$$ing around welding bosses into the downpipe etc.As for a mapsensor most megasquirts come with one actually on the ecu so all you need is a vac hose from the manifold.The only problem that will arise is the 1.9 tps is a a switch rather than a poteniometer so you will need to source one off another car .Speak to PUGHAM i think he sorted one off a 405 just get the part number and your away.

 

Injectors etc can all be used with megasquirt no need to mess about with these.

 

You will be best making your own loom its something like 10 wires really easy you can get a ready made loom from diyautotune all you need to do is put your ends on for your sensors.Yes you can do away with afm and you can get a coil off something newer a ford jobby is the favorite so you can run wasted spark.Allso if you sort yourself a cam sensor out and your megasquirt can support it you can have indivdual coils and seqeuntial injection .

 

Thats it what else you wana know?,

 

Overall if your a hands on man and like to fiddle etc then go for it if your after something that you want to do once then leave it then this is not for you because you will always have a fiddle (Belive me) .Unless you have someone else map it for you

[205_sunderland 4]

Its a difficult one to say how cheap tbh.The range of megasquirts varies so much so dependent on cost id guess you could get one to run the 1,9 lumo for around 200-250 .Dont buy secondhand its a minefield look on diyautotune for one weather it be a kit or complete one.Id allso advise you do some reading up on these aswell because you will always be fettaling.

 

As for lamba you dont need one but they help in the mapping thats all .So if your getting it mapped for you find out weather they have there own wideband.It would siave you pi$$ing around welding bosses into the downpipe etc.As for a mapsensor most megasquirts come with one actually on the ecu so all you need is a vac hose from the manifold.The only problem that will arise is the 1.9 tps is a a switch rather than a poteniometer so you will need to source one off another car .Speak to PUGHAM i think he sorted one off a 405 just get the part number and your away.

 

Injectors etc can all be used with megasquirt no need to mess about with these.

 

You will be best making your own loom its something like 10 wires really easy you can get a ready made loom from diyautotune all you need to do is put your ends on for your sensors.Yes you can do away with afm and you can get a coil off something newer a ford jobby is the favorite so you can run wasted spark.Allso if you sort yourself a cam sensor out and your megasquirt can support it you can have indivdual coils and seqeuntial injection .

 

Thats it what else you wana know?,

 

Overall if your a hands on man and like to fiddle etc then go for it if your after something that you want to do once then leave it then this is not for you because you will always have a fiddle (Belive me) .Unless you have someone else map it for you

 

thanks for the help, ill be getting the car mapped properly at some point i just wanted a decent management set-up i could put on and once set up right forget about it like you said, i got another 2 part downpipe the other day with lamda boss so thats fine anyway, i read somewhere on the internet the other day on a 205 tt that a lad use a ford tps and made an adaptor which made it fit perfect.

 

The £250 you mentioned will that include the loom etc

[dcc 855]

Wouldnt bother. after speaking to somebody about the pro's and cons, very few pro's, mainly cons.

[Sandy 189]

I'd seriously consider secondhand DTA/OMEX/Emerald etc for not much more. Far superior real world behaviour and a much better choice of people willing to map them. I map all the main ECU types and every Megasquirt has been hassle and ended up costing the owner dearly to get right; and then they somehow... go off!

[205_sunderland 4]

i never realised they had so many problems, how are they still trading if there such a poor system? the other ecu options second hand will be like hens teeth to source i imagine which just makes it a nightmare to go for them

[Anthony 1,000]

Megasquirt itself works fine and has all the functionality and everything needed.

 

I've built a few of them, helped set them up on the car, and I know people that are running with it successfully and at a much reduced cost.

 

The problem with megasquirt is that it's not really a plug and play solution like more established ECU's such as DTA, Emerald and Omex are, and as such is both massively flexible if you know what you're doing and are prepared to tinker, but very easy to end up with a costly, frustrating headache if you don't. Unless you build it yourself (and have sufficient skill/competency to do so) then you've also no idea how good a job the person that built it has done, or even what spec it has been built to.

 

If cost is your primary reasoning for looking at Megasquirt, I'd personally look at a second hand DTA or similar as Sandy says - it will work and do exactly what it says on the tin. In my opinion, you should only go for Megasquirt because you particularly *want* Megasquirt irrespective of cost, be it for the challenge/satisfaction of doing it yourself, or because you're building something oddball that means you need functionality that an off the shelf ECU doesn't offer but that is possible with a customised MS.

 

Think of Megasquirt as building a kit car compared to buying something like a Porsche Boxster. You know the Porsche will work, perform well and be a known quantity, but it's not cheap. The kit car is immensely customisable, has huge potential and has a lower base price, but there's so many variables and unknowns that the end result is always in question unless you really know what you're doing, and buying a used one is a journey into the unknown.

 

i never realised they had so many problems, how are they still trading if there such a poor system?

Megasquirt itself isn't a problem - there's plenty of success stories out there to prove that.

 

The problem comes that people are buying it with the best of intentions when building and getting it running is really outside of their ability. Most of these people I suspect bought because it looked like the cheap option on paper, without properly researching exactly what is involved and how it differs compared to more established mainstream products, and as a result had a frustrating, unhappy experience, be it reliability, mapping or other problems.

 

Oh, and they don't "trade" as such - that comment alone makes me suspect that you really haven't understood the whole concept and nature of Megasquirt. Think of it as Linux for the automotive world and you're on the right lines.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

 

Megasquirt itself isn't a problem - there's plenty of success stories out there to prove that.

 

 

i hope i am one of them

 

mine was very good at low revs and even started/idled well when cold (even snow!) and that was with no idle control valve either.

 

above comments are right tho they can be very involved to get right, if you are hoping for a plug and play dont bother.

 

by the time the engine went awol it was ironed out very well and almost ran like oe .....until you pressed the loud pedal then woo hoo.

 

they have alot better systems now, i think they are running ms3 now? mine is only ms1 extra

 

try ms link i bought mine from here and his service is spot on along with good after sales care.

Edited July 28, 2011 by pugpete1108

[205_sunderland 4]

i know nothing about electrics to be fair be fair and ill be getting a friend to wire it in, but i keen for the challenge for setting up myself if its possbile with limited knowledge but ive looked on the site and im not even sure what ignition system i need

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Second attempt that this post, computer lost the first attempt!

 

I agree with Anthony, totally. I have been running MS on my car for years, but its no plug and play. Go MS if you want to get into the whole building it yourself etc... If you want something to just work go for something off the self.

 

You can run Peugeot coil packs from a small engined non COP 405, 306, 106, Saxo, AX's. The thermostat housing can be changed for an item without a dizzy hole, if you find the right 405/306. You can use a Mi16 flyweel to get a crank trigger.

 

 

I have done my best at mapping on the road, but it really needs to dyno'd to finish it off...

 

I would like to think that my car would put out the same power no matter which ECU I was running.

 

 

But I'm using my car every day, took it to Pugfest etc so its a Megasquirt that works!

 

Feel free to PM.

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

Buy DTA, make loom, test sensors are reading something believeable to the ECU, enter settings for crank trigger, guess a base map, crack it up. Spend 10 mins fiddling and it will idle on its own. Try it up the road with a wideband and get it to a point where it will drive by altering fuel map. Take it to rollers and map it.

 

That is what I did anyhow.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I had no issues getting the engine to start and run.... just had major issues in the beginning with idle under 1000rpm, due to crank signal noise!

 

Mad.

[hcmini1989 16]

I had a few issues with mine they only real main one was the ignition table was a pain to do.Other than that they pretty much set them selves up with a wideband.

 

I didnt run a knock sensor so this would have helped with the igntion side.I didnt know this when i started

[205_sunderland 4]

im still not such which way to go really so wait and see i guess, are you lot saying a wide band will help dramatically with mapping even a megasquirt aswell?

 

im tempted to go second hand with a dtk or something similar as the megasquirts were 350 when i looked on that site so not than cheap anyway :/

[Sandy 189]

It's very difficult for me to say what I really think, without my points just being pulled apart as different people's subjective viewpoints differ. Megasquirt promises much, the features and functionality and the latest versions read like a wish list for a ultimate ECU, but it's spoilt by several things.

 

You have no actual supplier as such, you're part of an experimental project and the "proffesional" suppliers, in many cases very enthusiastic and helpful, usually at best have an overview understanding of how it works and can't fully support and solve all problems. Rarely take criticism well either.

 

There are so many features, that it can be difficult to know what's affecting the running and what isn't, so problem solving can be a very long, frustrating drawn out and if you're using a professional mapper... expensive.

 

The software is heavy with wordy and difficult to comprehend at a glance phraseology; meaning unless you know exactly what all the descriptions are, hours go by trawling manuals and getting your head round it.

 

The crude map tables are fine for simple smooth road type engines, but nowhere near dense enough for half decent NA engines and compromises will result. Same applies to pump enrichment features, there isn't enough resolution.

 

Above all I find it very hard to produce consistent, reliable and precise maps with the system, that operate to the standard I expect to achieve on the regular aftermarket systems. It can make it look like I'm fumbling or don't know what I'm doing on a fairly basic engine with MS, while either side I'm making NA race engines drive like road cars on DTA etc.

What people are happy to call a good map in many cases is just ok. I'm constantly astonished by the low standard of mapping that's widely evident (even on factory systems!) I wouldn't claim to be able to do a perfect job every time, I can't; but being able to get to a nice clean and precise map in a few hours is essential for an aftermarket system. It's hugely frustrating when customers ring up days or weeks later reporting running problems and in recent times, that's only been on the MS cars for me.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

It's very difficult for me to say what I really think, without my points just being pulled apart as different people's subjective viewpoints differ. Megasquirt promises much, the features and functionality and the latest versions read like a wish list for a ultimate ECU, but it's spoilt by several things.

 

You have no actual supplier as such, you're part of an experimental project and the "proffesional" suppliers, in many cases very enthusiastic and helpful, usually at best have an overview understanding of how it works and can't fully support and solve all problems. Rarely take criticism well either.

 

There are so many features, that it can be difficult to know what's affecting the running and what isn't, so problem solving can be a very long, frustrating drawn out and if you're using a professional mapper... expensive.

 

The software is heavy with wordy and difficult to comprehend at a glance phraseology; meaning unless you know exactly what all the descriptions are, hours go by trawling manuals and getting your head round it.

 

The crude map tables are fine for simple smooth road type engines, but nowhere near dense enough for half decent NA engines and compromises will result. Same applies to pump enrichment features, there isn't enough resolution.

 

Above all I find it very hard to produce consistent, reliable and precise maps with the system, that operate to the standard I expect to achieve on the regular aftermarket systems. It can make it look like I'm fumbling or don't know what I'm doing on a fairly basic engine with MS, while either side I'm making NA race engines drive like road cars on DTA etc.

What people are happy to call a good map in many cases is just ok. I'm constantly astonished by the low standard of mapping that's widely evident (even on factory systems!) I wouldn't claim to be able to do a perfect job every time, I can't; but being able to get to a nice clean and precise map in a few hours is essential for an aftermarket system. It's hugely frustrating when customers ring up days or weeks later reporting running problems and in recent times, that's only been on the MS cars for me.

 

I have no experience of using other after market ECUs, but after the time I have spent using my Megasquirt, I am in no doubt what Sandy says in true.

 

I’m running the latest Megasquirt code and it has so many features, and finding out how to set them up to get what you want is right night mare. It sometimes feels like I’m just pissing in the wind in trying to fine tune the thing! Some days the car feels totally spot on, next day, feels totally different.

 

I would say I have an ‘OK’ map, the car runs and i’d say produces good power but I am in no doubt there is more to come.

 

Would make an interesting Mag article, for someone like PCC – Tune a car with a megasquirt and with another aftermarket ecu and compare the results.

 

Mad.

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

Some days the car feels totally spot on, next day, feels totally different.

 

See there is a difference for sure. Mine on DTA is totally the same no matter what, that to be honest is one of the things I most like about an ECU compared to a dizzy and carb.

The only difference is it is quicker when it is cold and the air is more dense, as it fuels to suit from the temperature compensation and pressure compensation.

[omega 82]

if you thinking of doing this might be a idea to spend a few quid on the latest practical performance car as they have a section about fitting one

[Matt Holley 11]

The other point that I don't think has been made is something like a DTA is an investment, it will always be worth something 2nd hand.

 

I tried to find a cheap 2nd hand S40 and they are rare to find and not far off the cost of new when they do come up, luckly I was able to get my S40i upgraded to injection by DTA, the service was fast and really good.

 

I wouldn't use anything else, I can see the price of MS drawing people in but unless you like building and mapping it yourself it's never going to save the money and time over a DTA.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

if you thinking of doing this might be a idea to spend a few quid on the latest practical performance car as they have a section about fitting one

 

 

 

What are they fitting? They did some stuff on Megasquirt a few years back... I read PPC from the start until last year, when it went too far away for its routes and was getting too adverty and American, decided I'd spend my money on the car and not a mag...

 

 

Dont get me wrong, my megasquirt works and I use the car every day. - Anyone fancy rolling roading it for me!

 

 

If you want an optimised system easily setup and installed, use something other than a MS. If however you want to learn about the ECU system then use the MS.

 

Mad.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

When I finally finish my 1.6 CTi project I was thinking on replacing the crappy mechanical advance in the dizzy with an afftermarket ecu,

My plan is to keep the standard 1.6 engine but improve reliability and enconmy. I like the idea of hollowing out the AFM as I'd like it to look standard too. maybe it could be adapted to fit a map sensor in there?

I too need to do a bit of swatting up on this yet, but because the car has no engine, seats, dash, or roof, the engine managment isn't a high prority.

Edited December 11, 2011 by ALEX