Quick Rack,

[SurGie 54]

Hi member's,

 

 

I am thinking of buying one ofTHESE and wonder if they are quite easy enough to fit for the novice ?

 

Iv never done any work on steering before apart from replacing the TRE and wonder if i should be getting the splined or flat drive type, my current rack is from a 1992 non power steering model 205 gti ?

 

I will be getting a new UJ steering rack bit that goes up to the first UJ in the rack while im there BTW. I have read on here that the splined type is quite rare and are usually part of the power steering set up.

 

Cheers.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Bearings are easier to get for spline drive, rather than flat. Piece of piss to fit though and well worth it.

[SurGie 54]

Right so i would need bearings, where do they fit ?

[Anthony 1,000]

I will be getting a new UJ steering rack bit that goes up to the first UJ in the rack while im there BTW. I have read on here that the splined type is quite rare and are usually part of the power steering set up.

There's three types of rack fitting - non-PAS square, non-PAS spline, and PAS spline

 

The non-PAS and PAS splined racks use a different length lower column / UJ section and are not interchangeable.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

Right so i would need bearings, where do they fit ?

 

On the pinion.

[SurGie 54]

Right ok, the ones off Demon Tweeks have a choice of splined non PS or flat drive non ps, so getting the splined would be the best option do you think or do you think Pug or other suppliers wont have any of the splined PS type because i heard they are more rare ?

 

I have never taken a steering rack or UJ apart before so im all new to this steering replacement job.

 

Shall i get the UJ section from Euro car parts or from Pug and of coarse get the right splined to spline flat to flat type for the rack ?

 

So the splined rack and UJ is the best route to go due to the bearings ?

Edited December 5, 2010 by SurGie

[Stevo309 0]

I'm just about to do the same job and started another thread along the same lines a couple of days ago. More than likely yours is flat drive but it's a quick thing to visually check. I would advise a pug replacement lower column as you know it will last, got a flat drive new oem replacement for mine from main dealer a few months ago for around £70.

 

You'll need the relevant tools to dismantle your rack and new rubber gaitors as well as a bearing for the pinion. The quaife rack kit comprises a new rack, pinion and phosphor bronze bush for the rack. All you need is the right bearing for the pinion and if I can solve the same problem I'll let you know how. Have been meaning to measure the quaife pinion to spec the bearing and will do so asap.

 

Changing the lower column is very easy but changing it to a splined version if you already have flat in order to get an easier bearing option on the pinion might also involve changing the upper steering column, taking on board Anthony's comment.

[SurGie 54]

Great thanks for that detailed info.

 

I was given a spare top column while ago as part of other bits i bought, i will check which type it is and if its the splined type then good.

 

Iv just re-read Anthony's post and i see what you mean, the whole rack has to be changed. I might take the rack to a place that can do it for me if it means not buying more tools i wont use in the future.

[Dariooo 5]

helo

 

On this site:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/S...n_Kit/1833/4953

 

It's only a RHD. Are maybe the same rhd anld lhd?

 

Thank you

[SurGie 54]

Try emailing them because im not sure myself, if not then you could always use the early Xsara rack which there are a few threads on this subject.

[SurGie 54]

Right, iv now taken a few photo's of my steering rack and by the looks of it its the non-PAS splined type, can someone confirm its the splined type ? The thing is my car came with a mi16 engine without PAS fitted with it, so im not sure if it had PAS originally or not ??

 

 

 

 

The spare very top part of the rack i have is also splined like the one on my car but im not sure if its the PAS one, it measures 19.5 inches in length or there abouts. Can someone confirm the length of the non PAS top rack for me ?

 

Oh and i turned the steering all the way round and it went about 3.2 turns lock to lock if thats any help ?

 

Cheers.

Edited December 12, 2010 by pugtorque

[Stevo309 0]

It looks like a flat drive pinion in your first photo to me.

[swordfish210 20]

It looks like a flat drive pinion in your first photo to me.

 

Ditto, looks a lot like a drive of flat

[SurGie 54]

Oh right so which bit are you looking at because the rack that goes into the top UJ has splines all around the shaft ?

[welshpug 1,621]

the pinion, the top of the lower column and bottom of the upper column was always splined.

[swordfish210 20]

The first picture, the pinion determines what type of drive the rack can be classified as

[SurGie 54]

After reading Wiki the pinion is the cog that is inside the rack.

 

So is it possible to just change the whole steering system to splined or for the hassle of that, shall i just get the flat drive and try to get hold of the bearing from somewhere ? I can easily get my engineering place to make me one im sure ?

 

Is there any difference in the feel of the steering with either type ?

 

 

So am i right that the flat drive is the cog and rack teeth being the flat type like HERE. ??

Edited December 6, 2010 by SurGie

[Stevo309 0]

Yes that's right. The rack is basically a bar with teeth on it, the track rods attach at each end, the pinion is the gear/cog that drives it along. The pinion in this case is on a short shaft, where it emerges from the casing it is either splined or flat where it meets the uj on your lower column. You can see this in your first photo.

 

Upward from that and inside the cabin it clamps to the upper column, no matter what type of lower column you have this part is actually splined.

 

I have recently changed my entire rack for a refurbed gsf one, as well as track rod ends and the lower column to eliminate slop so when I decided to go for the quaife upgrade it made sense to keep the existing new lower column so I ordered the flat drive kit.

 

I have to now solve where to get a new bearing though for the pinion and apparently this is an odd size. If you're prepared to change your lower column for the splined type and the matching upper column then you could order the quaife spline type of kit, the only difference between the 2 kits is the pinion. That's the dilemma though. As far as I can see there would be no difference in steering feel between the two types, just the method that peugeot used to attach the pinion.

 

I'll take pics of the quaife parts tomorrow

[SurGie 54]

Thanks a lot for that, its much more clear to me now.

 

As its really only the bearing that is stopping me buying the flat type and there ant much difference in the feel of the steering between the two types, i think ill get the flat type from Demon Tweeks, it will save me money having to buy the very top column as-well, which i will change to a new one next year at some point, just as long as the rack and lower UJ is all new and quick.

 

Its all down to the flat type bearing now, if needs be i can organise one to be made but i would need one to get copied by my engineering place. If you can get some made then i would be very interested.

 

I look forward to those pics.

 

Cheers..

[Dariooo 5]

I have read the right bearing it's 6003....so BORE 17MM, OD 35MM, WIDTH 10MM.....it's this the right dimension?

[Stevo309 0]

I have read the right bearing it's 6003....so BORE 17MM, OD 35MM, WIDTH 10MM.....it's this the right dimension?

 

I'll take your word for it on the outer diameter and width and assume these don't change for the square/flat pinion but having measured my Quaife flat pinion the internal diameter of the bearing would need to be 19mm. That gives us:

 

ID: 19mm

OD: 35mm

Width: 10mm

 

Can anyone confirm that this looks right?

 

If we can't source a ball bearing at these dimensions i wonder if a bronze bush would do the job? Easy enough to have that turned?

[Stevo309 0]

As its really only the bearing that is stopping me buying the flat type and there ant much difference in the feel of the steering between the two types, i think ill get the flat type from Demon Tweeks, it will save me money having to buy the very top column as-well, which i will change to a new one next year at some point, just as long as the rack and lower UJ is all new and quick.

 

Yeah no worries, i think that's the right choice. We only have to solve the bearing issue and it will be a simpler job for you. If you have any wear in your lower column UJ by the way the one i took off my car was perfectly ok and didn't really need changing so let me know if you need it. It has done 95k miles though so it won't have long left i bet.

[Dariooo 5]

The internal diameter 19mm can be a problem, because a bearing with this dimension not exist (SKF), maybe on order....but I doubt that can you fint it. Are you sure in 19mm?

 

You can change a external diamter on you pinion on 17, then you will can easyer find a bearing for your pinion.

 

With bronze bush you will have more friction and you can't lubricate.

 

I'll take your word for it on the outer diameter and width and assume these don't change for the square/flat pinion but having measured my Quaife flat pinion the internal diameter of the bearing would need to be 19mm. That gives us:

 

ID: 19mm

OD: 35mm

Width: 10mm

 

Can anyone confirm that this looks right?

 

If we can't source a ball bearing at these dimensions i wonder if a bronze bush would do the job? Easy enough to have that turned?

[SurGie 54]

Yeah no worries, i think that's the right choice. We only have to solve the bearing issue and it will be a simpler job for you. If you have any wear in your lower column UJ by the way the one i took off my car was perfectly ok and didn't really need changing so let me know if you need it. It has done 95k miles though so it won't have long left i bet.

 

 

Thanks for the offer but my mot man said that my UJ is on its way out but now the engine is out it seems ok ? I think it's best to get a new one because of the weight of my VTS engine may wear it out quicker and as im having almost everything else brand new, i might as well while im there with the engine out.

 

I would try to get hold of the bearing myself but i dont have the tools to take my rack apart to get at it.

[Stevo309 0]

The internal diameter 19mm can be a problem, because a bearing with this dimension not exist (SKF), maybe on order....but I doubt that can you fint it. Are you sure in 19mm?

 

You can change a external diamter on you pinion on 17, then you will can easyer find a bearing for your pinion.

 

With bronze bush you will have more friction and you can't lubricate.

 

Yes it's definitely 19mm. It would be possible to turn down to 17mm to use a standard bearing but i'm not sure how you would then get the bearing on? You would have to turn the whole shaft down so would it still clamp into the UJ ok?

 

It begs the question, what diameter is the standard square pinion and what bearing would be in a standard rack?

 

Edit: I can see that a 6003 bearing is 17.000 x 35.000 x 10.000. So this would work, presumably there's a circlip above the bearing to hold the shaft in, so i would need to have the whole shaft turned down to 17mm and then a new groove for the circlip at 10mm up. The flat part of the shaft is 15mm so 17mm would leave a smaller shoulder but still ok.

 

I'm not sure why Quaife would make it this way, i'm wondering what the standard bearing is?

Edited December 7, 2010 by Stevo309