Gti6 Wont Start In My 405...

[Sloppy 0]

As above had a gti6 engienn in my 405 (mk2) usign the 405 loom and actually an s16 ecu, was rnning fine but had a big flat spot from 3-4.5k so have a unlocked gti6 ecu (purchased from a reputable 306 breaker on the gti forum so would generally trust it is unlocked) i thought i would go for the swap.

 

engine was running fine before swap.

 

did the loom, removed small plug with all imob stuff and arcon leaving only the large plug, with it being a late 405 literally all the wire nubers match all gauges work etc but it just wont fire, you can hear fuel pump prime etc.

 

So questions:

 

are there any sensors (if i have streched the loom??) that if unpluged or getting no signal can make the ecu not start the car.

 

is there anything else to check, hints tips??

 

if the ecu is some how locked or i got raped by johnie205 on the git6 forum can i test the ecu, i.e check pins too see if it is locked.

 

any help or advice would be extremely greatly recieved, also if theres anyone neary north leeds/harrogat/skipton with an unlocked ecu i could try to rule that out i would be greatful!

 

Many thank Joe

[welshpug 1,621]

have you got spark?

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

I once bought something from said member, wasn't as described.

[welshpug 1,621]

I did, and it was 100%, but thats O.T and not for discussion here.

 

 

You need to ascertain whether you have spark and injector pulse, power to the coil and injectors ETC, simple diagnostic procedures

 

I believe that a locked ECU will not prime.

Edited October 27, 2010 by welshpug

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It won't work on a Bosch loom I'm afraid.

If you can get the ECU to me I can test it for you at no cost bar return carriage.

[blessed6383 0]

aren't the pin arrangement different on the loom/ecu (ie power,fuel etc in different pin positions?

[welshpug 1,621]

yup they are, but that's not an issue if I understand this statement

 

did the loom

[damien 22 1 Cars]

405 gti6..... intresting

 

is there a project thread somewhere i can have a read?

[Sloppy 0]

i can start a project thread on here if thats allowed with it being a 405?

 

Have quite a few pics and problems etc i have come across.

 

was i mk2 405 i got 3 years ago and ran for a bit then sold the engine thought it weould be best to bring it back to life!

 

Just to clarify, i fitted the gti6 engine with and xsi box (git6 bow would not fit under chassis leg) as i was not to keen to begin with i went for an old unlocked s16 ecu on the origional 405 loom onto the gti6 engine. Had to fit s16 coils/injectors/icv/fuel pressure reg.

 

runs or should i say ran excellent, just crap between 3-4.5k then really fasst upto red line!

 

got the car mot'd, only just passed on emmisions, it like the ecu could not react quite fast enough to the change in throttle position, so thought with the flat spot and this may aswell go for the gti6 loom and ecu.

 

i got the gti6 engine with a loom and a locked ecu

i have a spare mk1 gti6 loom which i had from 1 i broke years ago and fittted a td to!

i bought a 'unlocked' ecu from johnnie

 

so currently fitted is the mk1 gti6 loom (literally all wires were same numbers as its a mk2 405 so was not to bad to wire up at all and have checked the main powers etc) this has the 405 multi plug on the end, and obviously i have refitted gti6 injectors fuel pressure reg and coils.

 

its getting fuel to rail and i can hear pump prime, not sure if there opening so i will check this. i put a multmeter to the coil wire and i could not see and 12v feed on cranking from either wire (2 wires on gti loom)

 

is there a better way to test this?

 

Miles thanks for the offer, i have a good known ecu aswell but that is locked how much would you charge to unlock?

 

does anyone live local who would be willing to drop the ecu in there car to see if it will work on their car?

 

many thanks for all the responses so far, keep them coming!

Edited October 28, 2010 by Sloppy

[welshpug 1,621]

as its an early loom, do you have switched live to the relay?

 

some part of it is obviously workign as you do have fuel, but you need a 12v feed to the injectors and coils which come from the relay.

[shalmaneser 26]

i can start a project thread on here if thats allowed with it being a 405?

 

Have quite a few pics and problems etc i have come across.

 

was i mk2 405 i got 3 years ago and ran for a bit then sold the engine thought it weould be best to bring it back to life!

 

Just to clarify, i fitted the gti6 engine with and xsi box (git6 bow would not fit under chassis leg) as i was not to keen to begin with i went for an old unlocked s16 ecu on the origional 405 loom onto the gti6 engine. Had to fit s16 coils/injectors/icv/fuel pressure reg.

 

runs or should i say ran excellent, just crap between 3-4.5k then really fasst upto red line!

 

got the car mot'd, only just passed on emmisions, it like the ecu could not react quite fast enough to the change in throttle position, so thought with the flat spot and this may aswell go for the gti6 loom and ecu.

 

i got the gti6 engine with a loom and a locked ecu

i have a spare mk1 gti6 loom which i had from 1 i broke years ago and fittted a td to!

i bought a 'unlocked' ecu from johnnie

 

so currently fitted is the mk1 gti6 loom (literally all wires were same numbers as its a mk2 405 so was not to bad to wire up at all and have checked the main powers etc) this has the 405 multi plug on the end, and obviously i have refitted gti6 injectors fuel pressure reg and coils.

 

its getting fuel to rail and i can hear pump prime, not sure if there opening so i will check this. i put a multmeter to the coil wire and i could not see and 12v feed on cranking from either wire (2 wires on gti loom)

 

is there a better way to test this?

 

Miles thanks for the offer, i have a good known ecu aswell but that is locked how much would you charge to unlock?

 

does anyone live local who would be willing to drop the ecu in there car to see if it will work on their car?

 

many thanks for all the responses so far, keep them coming!

 

I'd love to see the project thread, start one we've got a build thread on here about a shed so I'm sure a 405 would be allowed!

[Sloppy 0]

as its an early loom, do you have switched live to the relay?

 

some part of it is obviously workign as you do have fuel, but you need a 12v feed to the injectors and coils which come from the relay.

 

humm that sounds promising, in theory i hve connected every wire as per the guide in the sticky in this section i.e 100 starter (hence it turns over) 120 fuel pump, 123 switched live for labda and cc4 air bag live. i have connected every other wire on the list and im only left with 1 not connected which is 402 i think which is for the oil pressure but the 405 done have one and the late gti6 engine does not have one purely there cos its a mk1 loom.

 

however i got rid of all the wires to the little multiplug could one of these provided the power? looked like mostly ac and imob stuff but to be honest people said it was not needed so i ditched it (well its still there just cut back and seaed off.

 

can i unplug the relay and check its getting the live or can you give me the wire number so i can check its getting it as it seems to be getting no pulse to the coils or injectors as you say, found this out after further testing tonight.

 

also tested the locked one i have and its just the same response, fuel pump primes but no firing.

 

shalm, i will get some more pics and do a write up this weekend.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Sloppy

[Alastairh 47]

It's a shame your not local, I have a spare 101% genuine unlocked ecu you could try.

 

Get a thread up, it sounds interesting!

 

Al

[Sloppy 0]

It's a shame your not local, I have a spare 101% genuine unlocked ecu you could try.

 

Get a thread up, it sounds interesting!

 

Al

 

gutted, it would be so handy just to rule it out or realise thats whats the problem!

 

looked at the relay like welsh said, the mk1 loom has 16 connections to the relay and the mk2 loom has 14 connections, however its the same relay so those connectios go to the same number of pins?

 

welsh if you can let me know which one differs i would be grateful and i will check its getting a feed.

[welshpug 1,621]

will see if I can get my PDF writer to work

[Sloppy 0]

will see if I can get my PDF writer to work

 

yes i could do with the autodata sheet for the pre 97 gti6 loom if anyone can sort it.

 

Many thanks Joe

[welshpug 1,621]

switched live to pin 14 of the double relay you need for both early and later looms.

[Sloppy 0]

switched live to pin 14 of the double relay you need for both early and later looms.

 

 

checked this and it has got power to pin 14.

 

gonna check its getting power through to relay, purge canister is getting power so far so something is opening?

[Sloppy 0]

More checking the coils and injectors get a surge of power while the fuel pump primes then when its primed the power drops off. however the power to the throtle body heater continues even though it shows this of the same relay swithch?

 

im confused, i suspect it could be somethngit to do with the mk1 loom or is this what they do when locked?

[Sloppy 0]

so checked throgh wires to the double relay:

 

First side of relay

 

Live to pin 11 fine join to pin 1 think is getting power

and pin 9 is def getting power

Live to pin 2 fine which join to pin 10 holds this side of realy closed wityh an earth from ecu and thats there checked it

 

 

other side of realy

 

live to pin 8 fine join power to pin 5,6,13,4 spike of power for around 5-10 second to pime fuel pump and can be seen on coils and injectors

live to pin 15 fine

swithed live workig to pin 14 which join to earth to pin 7 from ecu is present to hold switch closed

 

pin 12 also comes from ecu as part of imob, seems dead, even though relay is opening and closing with the igntion so hopefull this is as it should be!

Edited October 31, 2010 by Sloppy

[Toddy 7]

For reference - I bought a GTI6 ecu from Jonnie(I will continiue to rip people off)205, it turned out that it had a damaged injector board most likely by disconnecting when the engine is running, must safer to disconnect when the ign is switched on only.

 

Back on topic, You need a diode inserted between the plug connectors to check whether the injectors or coils are receiving power when you are cranking the engine, Autodata states this procedure, which you may be able to locate on the 306GTi6 site.

 

Rich_W on hte 306 site does ECU's for £60 delivered.

 

HTH

[Sloppy 0]

For reference - I bought a GTI6 ecu from Jonnie(I will continiue to rip people off)205, it turned out that it had a damaged injector board most likely by disconnecting when the engine is running, must safer to disconnect when the ign is switched on only.

 

Back on topic, You need a diode inserted between the plug connectors to check whether the injectors or coils are receiving power when you are cranking the engine, Autodata states this procedure, which you may be able to locate on the 306GTi6 site.

 

Rich_W on hte 306 site does ECU's for £60 delivered.

 

HTH

 

is that £60 for an unlocked ecu delivered, not exchange or anything?

[Toddy 7]

is that £60 for an unlocked ecu delivered, not exchange or anything?

 

Outright sale.

[Sloppy 0]

Outright sale.

 

i will pm him, it would make sense that this is the issue, i need the car next week really gonna have to go back to s16 ecu and loom, think im gonna wire a 306 round pin to the 405 one so i can in theory easily swap between the gti6/s16 looms, i.e just plug and play, checked all the pins and there pretty much the same.

 

was running the s16 ecu before so at least i know it will work and it buys me time to sort something out with the gti6 loom ecu issues. f***ing cars!

 

on the bright side i would say i have a very detailed understanding of the 306gti6 loom now!

Edited October 31, 2010 by Sloppy

[welshpug 1,621]

the PDF I sent you was for pre may 97 looms, I have no earlier versions than that I'm afraid.

 

the ecu's are all the same as are the components, just how the relays and switched lives vary by the looks of it.