Ms Problems?

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

i got a bit of time this morning so went round and plugged the ecu in a gave it a try... and its till got a really irratic spark.

 

with the drivers connected correctly (a to a and b to B ) i get no spark at all exept for one spark when i stop cranking??

 

with the drivers swapped (a to b and b to a ) i get spark on 1-4 cyl but non on 2-3 cyl??

 

i connected alight between both a and 12v and b and 12v and i get:

 

a-12v: light stays on constant

b-12v: light comes on once then nothing.

 

the leds on the front show d14-constant d15 constant and d16 intermittent(as if sparking)

 

james from the ms forum and he reakons it a bad tooth signal? so he suggested i try tuner studio and log the tooth pattern:

 

 

also there is a log for cranking too:

 

msl file

 

any help appreciated

Edited August 17, 2009 by pugpete1108

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

turns out that is how the signal should look when cranking

 

the curves are the engine slowing down under compression, still dont explain why i have no spark??

[Mad Professor 7]

You say connecting a light from a or b to 12volts, is that with the coil pack still connected?

 

And please make sure that the coil pack or your test light is never connected to 12volts wile the megasquirt is not powered up, otherwise power will feed back down and fry your megasquirt again.

 

All devices that connect to the megasquirt ie coil pack, injectors, idle valve, must be connected to a switch live feed, so that the devices only get a 12volt supply when the megasquirt unit does.

 

Silly question, as you are using a 2nd hand ford coil pack, do you know that it is in good working order?

 

I see wile cranking your battery voltage drops to the lowest of 9.1volts.

 

But I also see that your MAT (Air Temp) is flatlined at -21.7deg, and your CLT (Water Temp) is around 29deg.

 

I will have a better look over your log later on today.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mad Professor

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

no that is with the coil pack disconnected, and no i havent left 12v going to the ecu at any time, only while cranking to check the drivers are working.

 

yeah the coil comes on when the relay board comes on to power everything up.

 

the coil pack is second hand yes, so when i get a mo i will get another one and try that.

 

not sure about the battery, it was charged overnight before i used it so,is 9v too low?

 

i think the mat sensor is caput (need to pick up another oen)but the clt one is ok and near enough correct temp.

 

my next move was a different coil pack and maybe leads as i see people are not using the ford leads with the ford pack?? whats the best/most reliable set up to got for with leads etc.?

 

pete

[Mad Professor 7]

As you have burnt out your VB921 (Coil Drivers) using this coil pack, you might of damaged the coil pack.

 

I would disconect you coil pack, and test the coil pack with your DVM (Digital Volt Meter), Put one probe on the 12volt pin of the coil and the 2nd probe on the switched ground side of the coil, look at your readings both coils should read the same.

 

I don't know how meny ohm you should get on a ford coil pack but on the Sagem (2 526 040 A) Coil Pack is it around 00.6-00.8ohm.

[welshpug 1,621]

0.4 to 0.6 Ohm says Autodata, shows a 3 pin plug with battery voltage to the middle pin.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

bit of an update,

 

i brought some of them lights that plug on top of the plugs and light up when it sparks.(quite nifty and save me pulling plugs to see the spark)

 

bank a is firing correctly now??? so cyl 1-4 is ok (even got my timing light going too)

but nothing on bank b cyl 2-3

 

so i think buggered coil perhaps like you mentioned ?

i can t test it as it seems i left my multimeter left on and the batteries are flat grrr

 

i think maybe wiring it up backwards like i did has popped it like you said too.

 

i'll get some more batteries and test it then get another one.

 

and yes it is 12v middle pin and either side drivers.

 

my ecu is getting quite hot though? could this be too much cranking?

[Mad Professor 7]

Somthing getting hot is never a good sign.

 

My own megasquirt is always cold to the touch, even when I have bench tested a megasquirt pushing the coil drivers and the injectors banks, it only get's very warm to the touch, not hot.

 

If you have somthing getting hot you have somthing pulling more current then it is ment to be.

 

As phil has upgraded your MS from the VB921's to the new Bosch BIP373, you should be ok, as I have not heard of anyone killing one of them via having the dwell to high.

 

But I would advice you to take the case off your megasquirt and try and find out where all the heat is coming from as that might point you to where your problem is.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Somthing getting hot is never a good sign.

 

My own megasquirt is always cold to the touch, even when I have bench tested a megasquirt pushing the coil drivers and the injectors banks, it only get's very warm to the touch, not hot.

 

If you have somthing getting hot you have somthing pulling more current then it is ment to be.

 

As phil has upgraded your MS from the VB921's to the new Bosch BIP373, you should be ok, as I have not heard of anyone killing one of them via having the dwell to high.

 

But I would advice you to take the case off your megasquirt and try and find out where all the heat is coming from as that might point you to where your problem is.

 

the heat is from the heatsink??? running down the side of the ecu its too hot to touch aswell, circled below

 

 

could it be the coil causing it to get hot ? especially if its fubared

Edited August 18, 2009 by pugpete1108

[Mad Professor 7]

I would let the ECU cool down, so you can touch each of the parts on the heatsink, then disconect the Coil Pack, power on your megasquirt and see if it still get's hot.

 

If it stays cool. then try conecting your coil pack without cranking, if it get's hot then, you have a problem with the coil pack and or the new coil drivers.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

I would let the ECU cool down, so you can touch each of the parts on the heatsink, then disconect the Coil Pack, power on your megasquirt and see if it still get's hot.

 

If it stays cool. then try conecting your coil pack without cranking, if it get's hot then, you have a problem with the coil pack and or the new coil drivers.

 

i'll give it a go tomorrow if i can drag my sorry ass out of bed(back on nights tonight)

Edited August 18, 2009 by pugpete1108

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

its the two coil drivers that are getting hot, but only when cranking.

 

after some advice from james on the ms forum i tried using timing based in spark settings which resulted in only one driver getting hot???

 

the one nearest the db37 connector is fine nice and cool but the next one is getting red hot after a few cranks?

 

he seems to think its something to do with the crank signal as the d16 led is now flashing sometimes but still sticking on too.

[Mad Professor 7]

When you brought your MegaSquirt did you buy any of the Stimulators (JimStim) ect.

 

Also as you have had all kinds of problems upto date, it might be worth doing a backup of the settings, and reflashing your megasquirt with the lastest version of MS1extra (029y4).

 

If you reflash your megasquirt please please please make sure you disconect your coil pack.

 

Do you have access to an Oscilloscope?

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

When you brought your MegaSquirt did you buy any of the Stimulators (JimStim) ect.

 

Also as you have had all kinds of problems upto date, it might be worth doing a backup of the settings, and reflashing your megasquirt with the lastest version of MS1extra (029y4).

 

If you reflash your megasquirt please please please make sure you disconect your coil pack.

 

Do you have access to an Oscilloscope?

 

no i didnt buy any of that.

 

i would do that but i don't know how?, james (wracing) did show me but i forgot, i think using teraterminal or something?

 

i would do that at home so no fear there

 

and no i havent got an oscilloscope or even acess to one.

 

i'll have a little read up about reloading the firmware tonight if i can

 

btw do you have a connection diagram for a siemens/sagum coil pack (the for pin type)? as i have one here to try out

[Mad Professor 7]

To reload your firmware all you will need is this file: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/Downloads/029y4.zip

 

Extract the zip file to your desktop and run the file called "download-firmware.bat" and follow the on screen prompts.

 

If you are using MegaTune run the file called "copyini.bat" this will update megatune with any updates regarding your firmware.

 

Looking at the Sagem coil pack like this.

 

Reading left to right.

Pin 1 - Coil A.

Pin 2 - Coil B.

Pin 3 - Switched 12volt Feed.

Pin 4 - For Suppressor Cap.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

the coilpack i have here is 2 526 055 a, should be ok and same connections?

[welshpug 1,621]

Bosch coilpack uses the same pattern, I know that the TU engines use a few different sagem units and the only difference between them is the angle the plug/socket sits at.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Bosch coilpack uses the same pattern, I know that the TU engines use a few different sagem units and the only difference between them is the angle the plug/socket sits at.

 

yeah this one comes out at and angle so i assume its ok, will give it a test before i use it.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

right i tested both coil packs today:

 

the ford one:

12v-a - 00.9 ohms

12v-b - 00.6 ohms

 

the sagem one:

 

pin 3-pin 1 - 00.9

pin 3-pin 2 - 00.9

 

both knackered then. odd thing is coil a on the ford one produces spark but coil b deosn't??

 

i reflashed the firmware today, will get a new coil pack tomorrow and try again.

 

just been having a read up on coil packs and i see that they should be earthed? through the coil body?

is this correct? as having looked at both packs i have here they have metal bases which i guess is for earth?

 

please tell me they do and the reason i have had trouble with spark is that i havent earthed it what a tw*t

Edited August 20, 2009 by pugpete1108

[welshpug 1,621]

I didn't think they had to be, just a power and two triggers?

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

I didn't think they had to be, just a power and two triggers?

 

hmmmm... just seems a coincidence that where i had the coil pack sitting only the a side of it was touching the engineand earthing and the b side wasnt as i haven't got round to mounting it properly yet.

 

the metal casings/plates must be for something??

 

another thing to try at least

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

bit of an update.

 

i made up an earth strap (until i get the coil pack mounted correctly) so the coil is earthed ok and the leds on the unit are now flashing correctly and even better the coil drivers are NOT getting hot.??

 

but i still havent got spark on cyl 2-3 so i'm off to pick up another ford coil and try that.

 

will let you know the result...fingers crossed

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

right i fitted another coil pack and new ht leads and now have spark across all cylinders

 

but...... the spark is coming at completely the wrong time??

 

i've marked tdc on the bellhousing and fly wheel but when i use the light to check i cannot see the mark at all, its waaay out.

 

so not really sure where to go now

 

any tips ms guys?

[welshpug 1,621]

100% the mark is in the right place?

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

100% the mark is in the right place?

 

pretty sure it is.

 

i put a rod down no1 cyl and turned the crank until it stopped and then noted when it started down again and got roughly in the middle, so it cant be so far out that i cant even see the mark.

 

i'm sure its just the trigger angle that needs adjusting but tbh i wouldn't know where to start.

 

surely it doesnt matter if the cyl is on exhaust or compression stroke with wasted spark?