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Saveit

Few Quick Megasquirt Questions

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Saveit

Hi,

 

After a lot of reading (going through old posts and related threads) i have just a few questions regarding MegaSquirt.

 

Firstly, a more general question - which setup do you think will be the simplest setup to use on a 205 (going for throttle bodies) running both squirt and spark?

 

Ive read some negative things about the VR sensor so i was thinking about using a Golf 16v distributor to use the hall effect instead of other trigger types. I would like to run 8 injectors possibly. I was thinking this could do:

 

TPS (on throttle bodies - stdt 205 not useable)

Coolant Temp Sensor (dont know why its needed but appearently it is?)

Hall sensor (Golf 16v distributor)

Inlet Air Temp sensor (from which car?)

4 LS1 coils (built in driver)

 

As far as i know this should be enough, or is there something i have misunderstood? I guess this would be the simplest setup?

 

Now would i need any extra drivers or something if i buy an Assembled MS1 V3 from Diyautotune?

 

Thank you guys!

 

Stefan

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pugpete1108
Hi,

 

After a lot of reading (going through old posts and related threads) i have just a few questions regarding MegaSquirt.

 

Firstly, a more general question - which setup do you think will be the simplest setup to use on a 205 (going for throttle bodies) running both squirt and spark?

 

Ive read some negative things about the VR sensor so i was thinking about using a Golf 16v distributor to use the hall effect instead of other trigger types. I would like to run 8 injectors possibly. I was thinking this could do:

 

TPS (on throttle bodies - stdt 205 not useable)

Coolant Temp Sensor (dont know why its needed but appearently it is?)

Hall sensor (Golf 16v distributor)

Inlet Air Temp sensor (from which car?)

4 LS1 coils (built in driver)

 

As far as i know this should be enough, or is there something i have misunderstood? I guess this would be the simplest setup?

 

Now would i need any extra drivers or something if i buy an Assembled MS1 V3 from Diyautotune?

 

Thank you guys!

 

Stefan

i wouldn't say its the simplest method but by far the most economical imo, once you get your head round it then i think you'll be ok.

 

speak to james (wracing) on here he should give you a few pointers, very knowledgable chap. :)

 

i have yet to have mine started so i wouldn't like to give you any wrong advice.

 

pete

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mattbenselin

Hi mate I am not able to help you with sourcing/making a MS at the moment. Your best bet would be to buy from the net pre-built.

 

As for coolant temp sensor its used to allow the ECU to run a different map until the engine is up to temp. Bit like using a choke.

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Saveit

No problem matt.

 

But am i on the right path with above mentioned setup or is there something i am missing? And what about the prebuilt ecu, will i need to add anything to run this?

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mattbenselin

Put aside an hour or two and read this - Megasquirt Site

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Saveit
Put aside an hour or two and read this - Megasquirt Site

 

Oh i sure did try :) But not much of it was actually understood. Much easier to understand what i have read in all the different megasquirt threads in here.

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Tom Fenton

Buy a proprietory ECU second hand, available from about £300-350 mark, wire it in to your engine and then worry about everything else that you need to get your head around without having to try and decide if the ECU is right or not. After all the horror stories I've heard I'm glad I didn't bother trying to get a MegaSquirt working. Plug a DTA/Omex/Emerald in and it will work.

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pugpete1108

check out this site:

extra efi

phil ringwood built my ecu to my specs

 

he can advise you on what you can and cant do with megasquirt.

 

there are alot of sucess stories using ms, mine included hopefully :)

 

if you have the cash though tom's right a plug and play option would be best, but like i said before once you get your head round it ms is a good ecu, but it IS a diy setup.

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mattbenselin

I've tried and tested the Megajolt and from my experiences it works great, not really had much experience with the Squirt but I can see there being bugs and problems. I would second Toms thoughts and try and find a 'proper' ECU 2nd hand. Depends what you want to do, DIY or plug and play?

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Tom Fenton

From what I can gather though, if you buy a built one, you are not really saving much cash over a second hand proprietory item?

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Saveit

I would rather have plug and play than DIY. Price is the issue. Well its not an actual issue, but im trying to keep the costs on a reasonable level. If i could find a proprietory ecu at about £300 then that could very well be my choice, but i cant seem to find any on that level.

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pugpete1108
I would rather have plug and play than DIY. Price is the issue. Well its not an actual issue, but im trying to keep the costs on a reasonable level. If i could find a proprietory ecu at about £300 then that could very well be my choice, but i cant seem to find any on that level.

 

secondhand would be the only way then i think, try ebay you never know.

 

just had a look and its seems your looking at 5-600 for even a second hand omex/emerald unit.

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Saveit
secondhand would be the only way then i think, try ebay you never know.

 

just had a look and its seems your looking at 5-600 for even a second hand omex/emerald unit.

 

Exactly... But i doubt megasquirt is that bad. Read a lot of good things about it though ive also read a lot of bad. But when thinking about it must be peoples own fault when its not working since many people use it with success.

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Tom Fenton

If you keep your eye out, and look in the right places they are available for sensible money, I have bought both a DTA and an Emerald for £350 and £300 respectively in the last 12 months.

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ifcho

Most problems with MS come from little knowledge about the system. Unfortunately if you are not quite familiar with electronics, you may experience quite a few problems with the MS (if you are not one of the few lucky ones that do not). MS has many advantages over many expensive ecu's out there, the main one, being its extensive software support and the beautiful tunning software available for it. The main disadvantages are that when you come to a dead end with some circuit playing games with you, you may wish you never thought of the MS at the first place.

 

At the moment I have three cars running MS and they are running perfectly, cold starts (from -15), hot starts, fuel consumption, etc, all is much better than with the stock ECU :)

 

Recently I had a look at a KMS system, which was next to tragic (the tunning software) it was like I am in the kingdom of windows 3.11 again. :-D

 

p.s. for anyone considering byuing/using MS I would recommend the MS1 processor. Although the MS2 features look tempting, most of them aren't really needed (especially for a track/rally car) and they make the board quite complex and hard to debug. Additionally there is huge support community for MS1, while the same cannot be said for the MS2 processor. So if you don't really need some of the features of the MS2, which cannot be done with a mod on the MS1, use the MS1 :) It is cheaper also

Edited by ifcho

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pugpete1108
Exactly... But i doubt megasquirt is that bad. Read a lot of good things about it though ive also read a lot of bad. But when thinking about it must be peoples own fault when its not working since many people use it with success.

 

lets hope so, otherwise i have made a costly mistake.

 

tom, i never have enough luck to find a good bargain, it always comes along when i dont need it

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Saveit

But if someone is capable of answering just these few questions then i think i got it.... for now :)

 

Can the MS1 V3 as standard run 8 injectors, and will it work with be earlier mentioned setup? If not, what will i need to add to the ECU or which sensors will i have to implement?

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ifcho

In the US, they usually run the MS with 8 injectors. You can have a bank of four running of one of the injection drivers and the second bank running from the second injection driver. I think that you should also have some fly-back circuit installed on the board (probably it's installed if it is v3). Then just play with the options for staged injection setup.

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Saveit

And is the sensor-setup that i have mentioned okay? Or should i add perhaps a lambda or something? Just want to ensure that i am working in the right direction :)

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ifcho
TPS (on throttle bodies - stdt 205 not useable)

Coolant Temp Sensor (dont know why its needed but appearently it is?)

Hall sensor (Golf 16v distributor)

Inlet Air Temp sensor (from which car?)

4 LS1 coils (built in driver)

As far as i know this should be enough, or is there something i have misunderstood? I guess this would be the simplest setup?

How would i need any extra drivers or something if i buy an Assembled MS1 V3 from Diyautotune?

Thank you guys!

Stefan

 

You will need the TPS from the bodies, CTS, IAT, 4 coil drivers for running the coils in wasted spark mode, and some sort of RPM signal.

I have used VR sensors with success, although the standard v3 RPM curcuit with the two blue potentiometers can be a PITA.

You can use MAP to tune your engine, but TPS (alpha-N) should be enough.

One advice that can save you a lot of troubles - make sure you have big earth cables between the engine, the body and the battery.

Edited by ifcho

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Saveit
You will need the TPS from the bodies, CTS, IAT, 4 coil drivers for running the coils in wasted spark mode, and some sort of RPM signal.

I have used VR sensors with success, although the standard v3 RPM curcuit with the two blue potentiometers can be a PITA.

You can use MAP to tune your engine, but TPS (alpha-N) should be enough.

 

So actually im on the right path. TPS i can use from the bodies. CTS i guess i can use the stdt one? IAT off ebay or something else. Hall sensor from Golf 16v dizzy. As far as i understand i wont need 4 coil drivers if the use the LS1 coils with built in ignition drivers right? Hmmm RPM signal - think i found a thread somewhere telling how to use the GTI6 speedo thing which have a connector on it.

 

So that will be the way to go for me.

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pugpete1108
So actually im on the right path. TPS i can use from the bodies. CTS i guess i can use the stdt one? IAT off ebay or something else. Hall sensor from Golf 16v dizzy. As far as i understand i wont need 4 coil drivers if the use the LS1 coils with built in ignition drivers right? Hmmm RPM signal - think i found a thread somewhere telling how to use the GTI6 speedo thing which have a connector on it.

 

So that will be the way to go for me.

 

not familiar with the ls1 coils but i'm using a ford coil pack running wasted spark with a vr sensor.

you will need a lambda sensor-best to get a wideband but narrow will get you started.

i'm using the bike bodies tps and it reads ok.

as said the ms can run 8 injectors.

 

and as mentioned good earths are a must, i have wired ALL the earths to the main engine earth on the chassis rail (battery in the boot).

 

i really would speak to james as he has my ecu at the moment and is re-programming it for me (i'm a software numpty :) )

 

good luck

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wracing

ive just picked this thread up im james btw

 

you can run 8 injectors (2injectors/cyl) you have a number of options:

staged whereby you run a single set of low flow injectors at idle, and then run a larger set at the higher rpms

staged whereby you run a single set of low flow injectors at idle, and then run both a larger set at the higher rpms

or run two banks of the same injectors firing alternately so the gas stream doesn't become saturated

 

the Peugeot/citron vr sensor is not an issue as long as you use shielded cable and the v3 mainboard

 

as said dont buy ms2 as most of the extra features are unimplemented

 

if you want to tune your engine your self and drive it on the road don't use alpha n its not necessary draw your map reading from all 4 ports just like you do with your brake servo

 

im a bit worried about the miss information in this thread tbh the vr sensor provides you with crank position information that controls all the spark timing and also provides you with a rpm output on the ecu

 

are you planning on running wasted spark or coil on plug

 

what engine are you planning or running with?

 

the blue cts from the std gti can be used

 

as long as your tps is a variable resistance type not switch you can use it

 

you dont need 4 coil driver for wasted spark you need 2

 

can you post your engine type and spec and ill tell you what you need?

 

thanks

 

james

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wracing

tbh it depends on your system comp ratios boost pressures mixtures... not as simple as a hotter spark is better. for instance i pulled a wasted spark system ran it on a bench under the watch of current loops and a high speed camera, i couldn't measure a stable difference it spark energy luminosity or current while true if one plug fails both do but running on 3 is just as bad as 2

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