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matty_gti

1.6 With A 1.9 Crank

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matty_gti

Hi all,

 

Well ive finaly got round to fiddling with the engine that came out of my crashed 1.6 and when checking the bearings etc I thought that people have turned there 1.6's to 1.9's by changing the crank, injectors, AFM etc but couldnt find any posts after a while of searching. Just wondering if its worth it as ive got the 1.9 crank spare while its apart?, and with the std 1.6 pistons it would increase the cr??.

 

Thanks.

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welshpug

it'll only work if you have the 1.9 rods as well.

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matty_gti
it'll only work if you have the 1.9 rods as well.

 

O rite ok, would there be any benefit of using a 1.9 crank while keeping the 1.6 pistons and rods?. I dont really want to take the head off as I only rebuilt it 10K miles ago.

 

Thanks

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pug_ham

The 1.6 rods won't fit the 1.9 crank, different sized big ends.

 

Graham.

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mattbenselin

As Welshpug said you will need to have 1.9 spec crank and rods as the 1.6 rods will not fit on the 1.9 crank. They will though fit the pistons. You will get longer stroke which increases the displacement but to get it all to work properly you need to change the ECU, injectors, AFM, dizzy etc to 1.9 items.

You may also need the sump spacer found only on the 1.9s, as I think this gives the extra clearance in the sump for the extended stroke.

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matty_gti

Ok cheers guys, looks like ill just be getting new bearings then!.

Edited by matty_gti

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pug_ham
You may also need the sump spacer found only on the 1.9s, as I think this gives the extra clearance in the sump for the extended stroke.

The 1.6 sump is deeper than the 1.9 & its not just a spacer but a block stiffener as well.

 

It should be fine without the stiffener plate & a 1.6 sump, I ran my 1.9 track car like this for a year or two before swapping to an Mi16 alloy sump (also without the stiffener) then fitting the stiffener & 1.9 sump.

 

Graham.

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Baz

It'll also be fine, although given not ideal, running on it's original management. (ECU, AFM, Injectors, etc)

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matty_gti

By how much is the 1.6 sump deeper than 1.9 then?, volume wise?.

 

And i don't supose you can remove and replace pictons from the bottom of the liner rather than the top?.

 

Thanks.

Edited by matty_gti

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pug_ham

With the stiffener plate fitted the 1.6 & 1.9 sumps are effectively the same depth same capacity.

 

You can't swap the pistons & liners from underneath iirc because the main bearing caps are in the way.

 

Graham.

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dcc

The liners wont fit out the bottom at all, however, think my pistons came through the bottom with no problems (crank removed), they might have come out with the liners though, can't remember now!

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matty_gti

I know the liners cant be removed from the bottom because of the way they are designed.

 

With the crank removed could I remove the pistons from underneath, swap the rings over to a set of 1.9 pistons and then fit these back in with the help of p.ring compressors?, or remove the pistons from underneath and replace the rods for 1.9 items retaining the 1.6 pistons and put in a 1.9 crank?.

 

Just trying to steer away from taking off the head, only been on the block for 10k.

 

Thanks.

Edited by matty_gti

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pug_ham

I've attached a picture of an Mi16 block from underneath, there are no liners fitted & the only difference is the under piston oilspray bars but as I'm sure you can see, it would be impossible to get a piston out from underneath because there isn't enough space between the bearings.

 

Even if you could the piston ring compressor wouldn't clear the main bearing halfs in the block so there would be a gap between the end of that & the liner which would allow the rings to open & stop them sliding into the liner bore.

 

Graham.

post-71-1230074730_thumb.jpg

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matty_gti

Ok thanks pugtorque, a picture tells a thousand words!

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Cameron

Why bother? Surely its easier and cheaper to just get rid of the 1.6 and use a 1.9 engine.

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MerlinGTI

As I understand it after reading another thread about using a mixture of 1.9/1.6 engine parts, the 1.6 pistions will give you a huge CR in what will basically be a 1.9 engine after you have changed the crank and rods.

 

So high your encounter problems if using std management and pump fuel.

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DamirGTI

98 RON petrol and re-curved dizzy will do the trick :rolleyes:

 

Damir

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matty_gti
98 RON petrol and re-curved dizzy will do the trick :(

 

Damir

 

Your rite, it doesnt raise the comp so much that its incurable by adjusting the dizzy. :)

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DamirGTI

Yes but , to be more precise , not by simply turning the dizzy like when you wish to advance or retard the timing :D you'll need to change the dizzy springs for stiffer ones and re-tense them in order to change the actual dizzy advance curve/settings , afterwards you need to do basics - adjust the dizzy by turning it in either direction to set up the best timing angle .. and unplug the pipe from the vacuum advance capsule

 

I've tried to run my 11.1 CR engine first on std. unmodified 1.9 dizzy but i had to retard the timing so much because of severe detonations/pinking low down and on this settings with the std. 1.9 dizzy the engine didn't want to go much faster than when was standard :) afterwards i fitted re-curved dizzy , adjusted the timing (by ear , on the road , unplugged the vacuum capsule pipe started advancing little at a time with test drive in between the settings until the engine started to detonate/pink low down in 4-th 5-th , backed off a little bit and fixed the dizzy on this position ..) and it was OMG :( an huge increase in power/torque and country lanes blur past much faster than before , been spinning around all day long like a clown on ecstasy :D

 

 

 

 

Anyway no need to bother yourself with this dizzy spring adjusting stuff , these lads will sort that job for you (for 20.00 quid) : http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/

..afterwards , as said , you'll just need to do basics – pick desired fuel type/octane rating which you'll be using and adjust the timing angle ..

 

Damir :o

Edited by DamirGTI

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matty_gti

And failing that I supose you could skim the pistons down a bit but then that kind of defeats the object :)

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welshpug

Depending on how much clearance there is this would be the ideal time to drop in a nice cam :)

 

Though if its on standard AFM I would leave it, different story if you upgraded to MP3.1...

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matty_gti
Depending on how much clearance there is this would be the ideal time to drop in a nice cam :)

 

Though if its on standard AFM I would leave it, different story if you upgraded to MP3.1...

 

is that Mi managment?

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DamirGTI

Well it's not ideal , this re-curved dizzy ignition system for 11.1 CR engine , but it's good enough for starter :) by all means mappable ignition will be the best option cos you'll be able to squeeze full potential of such modified engine :D

 

So with good ignition system there will be no need for skimming the pistons , enlarging the combustion chamber/volume or similar stuff - just min. 98 RON octane petrol and good ignition system properly timed will be all what's needed :(

 

I'll be fitting MS soon cos i want to see how much power/torque i can squeeze from this engine with mappable ignition/fueling , although it's very nice to drive as it is now on this the H&H re-curved dizzy :D

 

Damir

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pug_ham
is that Mi managment?

No, MP3.1 is from either a BX GTi, 405 SRi (some not all) the ZX.9i Volcane.

 

It'll make better use of the cam on this system than a standard AFM dizzy etc but ideally a remap is needed to get the full benefit of the cam.

 

Graham.

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