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Guest JasonS

1449cc

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Guest JasonS

Just enquiring on here if anyone has done this on the alloy TU3 block using the TU5 crankshaft and decked pistons.

 

Considering it but with bore/stroke ratio's altered i'm curious will it affect the "revvyness" characteristic that the 1360 has and be a bit duller through the rpm range.

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Rippthrough
Just enquiring on here if anyone has done this on the alloy TU3 block using the TU5 crankshaft and decked pistons.

 

Considering it but with bore/stroke ratio's altered i'm curious will it affect the "revvyness" characteristic that the 1360 has and be a bit duller through the rpm range.

 

 

yeah, I was wondering about the diesel crank myself, anyone got any thoughts on the subject?

 

-Phillip

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Guest JasonS

I'm talking about the TU5J2/4 crank though. Another concern is the amount that has to be taken off piston crown, will this affect piston strength considerably? Is there anywhere out there that would make up a forged item if given a sample of a normal 1360cc piston decked or the specification required either. Looking at QEP here...

 

Rod choices also - TU5 or TU3?

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Sandy

Charlie saville (Matt Sav's brother) did one on TB's and got about 125bhp IIRC.

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Guest JasonS
Charlie saville (Matt Sav's brother) did one on TB's and got about 125bhp IIRC.

 

Is Charlie on here? Maybe Matt can give some info on it as i'm sure he's on here with QEP being sponsors. 125bhp, seems about in line with a 1360 on bodies (depending on cam and compression ratio etc.) I'm sure the torque curve through the rpm range would see the benefits of this even more, especially down low where the TU3 lacks a bit.

Thanks

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Sandy

Yeh, from memory it made a good chunk below peak. charlie isn't on much anymore because he's working abroad from memory. Matt should know about it.

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TB_205GTI

Peugeot Sport Dk has made quite a few TU2J2 "magnum" engines by using the TU5D crank and machined down TU2 pistons. But they never gave any proper power - maximum I have seen from them is 125Bhp. Compared to the TU5 - it doesn't quite make sense B)

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Guest JasonS
Peugeot Sport Dk has made quite a few TU2J2 "magnum" engines by using the TU5D crank and machined down TU2 pistons. But they never gave any proper power - maximum I have seen from them is 125Bhp. Compared to the TU5 - it doesn't quite make sense ;)

 

The extra weight of the iron block on the front end does make a differnce in handling though as i've noticed from both my AX (Rallye engine - 1360b/end) and Saxo VTR. That would be only choice to go down this route as it probably maximises the potential of the alloy block besides forced induction.

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boombang

There is a chap flying about in a 1400 16valve. I have heard (and we know how reliable that can be) that it is around 250bhp in its latest incarnation. Unsure whether it is iron block or ally but on the basis he is often quicker than WRC cars I doubt he is too worried.

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TB_205GTI
There is a chap flying about in a 1400 16valve. I have heard (and we know how reliable that can be) that it is around 250bhp in its latest incarnation. Unsure whether it is iron block or ally but on the basis he is often quicker than WRC cars I doubt he is too worried.

 

 

250Bhp from a 1.4L N/A engine... maybe for ten seconds :(

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Rippthrough
250Bhp from a 1.4L N/A engine... maybe for ten seconds :(

 

Not really, motogp pulls 230bhp from an 800cc engine. It'd need serious amounts of work and rpm's, but plausible. It wouldn't be recognisable as a TU engine any more though.

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Sandy

Given that the best 1600 TUs are giving around 220bhp, 250 from the 1.4 is unlikely.

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Rippthrough
Given that the best 1600 TUs are giving around 220bhp, 250 from the 1.4 is unlikely.

 

Yep, unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.

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bren_1.3

a blue series two 106 rallye springs to mind......

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Rippthrough
a blue series two 106 rallye springs to mind......

 

Doesn't over here :(

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TB_205GTI

Does anybody know what rods Charlie used for his 1.5? I know it was machined down pistons and 1.6 crank, but what about the rods?

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Sandy

1.6 ones I think.

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Guest JasonS

I had heard the pistons were standard 1360 quicksilver ones decked. Not sure on the rods, would the choice of TU5 or TU3 rods ultimately affect the amount needed to deck the pistons? i.e longer rods, meaning more material needed to be removed for TDC position than using shorter rods?

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Sandy

Basically, you have to add half the stroke, rod length between bore centres and piston crown height from pin centre to crown edge. Whether this adds up to mote or less than the height of the block from crank centreline to deck will tell you where the piston crown will be at TDC.

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Mattsav

It loved to rev. The only thing holding the engine back was the crap cam it had fitted.

Hence we looked for something better and found Catcams ;)

 

It used a 1600 16v crank with quicky rod and pistons. The rods wouldn't be my ideal choice as they are very thin but its what we had at the time.

 

The tops of the piston needed machining but on the Quicksilver engine they sit below the deck as std which helped a bit.

 

We also put the lager valves (39mm) into the quicksilver head but the ports are not big enough and we scrapped 2 heads but grinding into the waterways!.

 

With a decent cam (Catcams 280deg) and a 1300/1400xsi/1600 head you can make a nice light/powerful 8v.

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Guest JasonS
Basically, you have to add half the stroke, rod length between bore centres and piston crown height from pin centre to crown edge. Whether this adds up to mote or less than the height of the block from crank centreline to deck will tell you where the piston crown will be at TDC.

 

Sandy, What do you mean by rod length between bore centres? Is that full rod length? This is why i thought using shorter rods (i think the 1360 ones from quicksilver 106/saxo westcoast are shorter than TU5 ones) would mean less material to be removed from piston crown, when comparing the measurement to the crank centreline to deck length.

 

I thought it would have been half the stroke+full rod length+piston crown height from pin centre to crown edge. Then like you said, taking this value from the crank centreline to deck will give the measurement to be machined.

 

With a decent cam (Catcams 280deg) and a 1300/1400xsi/1600 head you can make a nice light/powerful 8v.

 

Matt, did you machine the pistons level with deck, if so what kind of CR were you getting? Any need for cutouts with the 280deg catcam? I have the 270deg 10.8mm lift catcam already and hoping this would work well in a similar setup

 

 

Cheers for all the informative replies

Edited by JasonS

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Sandy

Rod length between bore centres as in between the big end bore centre and the small end bore centre.

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TB_205GTI

Matt what is the engine type of the Quicsilver? Is it a 1.4 MPI engine? (TU3JP)

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Guest JasonS
Rod length between bore centres as in between the big end bore centre and the small end bore centre

 

Oh right, thats what i mean by full rod length, between centres, not actual full rod length.

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