Jump to content
  • Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com!

    Hello dear visitor! Feel free to browse but we invite you to register completely free of charge in order to enjoy the full functionality of the website.

tomcolinjones

Aftermarket Ecu On Standard 8V

Recommended Posts

Andy

Are you sure that the clutch cover and the friction plate match.? What I mean by that is have you got a 215mm friction plate and a 200mm cover which went on the original 205 1.9 engine. The 215mm one is for the 60-2 flywheel from the Mi16 ( I think)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoodygoodwood

The clutch kit is a 215 mm mi16 item and the cover is fine and fits the flywheel/plate OK as far as I can see , the only issue I have is the springs touching the 8 crank bolts . I have always worked on 8V engines so I am a bit unfamiliar with using mi/GTI6 parts .If any one has one of these engines in bits could they measure the thickness of the bolt heads for me , mine are 5.5 mm approx. If someone has a flywheel could you drop a bolt in its hole and put a straight edge across the friction surface then measure down to the bolt head , mine are 3mm approx. The springs are 3mm proud of the clutch plates friction surface so it would be good if someone could check that as well . Will be going to the garage to double check all these dimensions tonight .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
welshpug

mi16 and 8v bolts are the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoodygoodwood

I have been given two complete mi16 flywheel and used clutches by a friend to compare with my own and to pinch parts from if needed . Will do some measuring tomorrow but there are some noticeable differences between the 3 sets I have in front of me . Clutch plates with 4 large or 6 smaller springs , some plates have springs that are almost flush on the flywheel side and some are 3mm proud . The covers have large differences in the length of the 'fingers' of the diaphragm so its easy to see there is no exact mi clutch spec . I think I have the bits I need now to mix and match and get the engine and box fitted .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
allye

Amazing attention to detail!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
welshpug

why is the afm still there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

It might be empty, for that OEM look. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoodygoodwood

The air flap on the AFM is fixed in the open position so there is no restriction to air flow , I have left it in place as it makes the bay look more standard and I can mount the 57i kit on it easily . I would have had to make something up to mount the K+N filter behind the headlamp for cooler air so this did the job for me .

The strut brace is missing at the moment , I have left it off to give Miles Horne better access when he fits the Omex loom , other than spark plugs and leads its all finished in the engine bay .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

If you're careful, you can strip the internals, leaving just the air temp sensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoodygoodwood

The air flap is still in the AFM but I have removed everything under the black plastic cap including the air temp sensor , I had fitted a new air temp sensor to the inlet manifold for the Omex to use but apparently its better to have one nearer the air filter to avoid engine heat so I might drill and tap a hole in the AFM body .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoodygoodwood

I have moved the Magnetti Marelli air temperature sensor from its position on the inlet manifold and mounted it in the air flow meter casting to get it away from engine heat so it gives a more accurate output .

Have not fitted any spark plugs yet as I have been spinning the engine over on the starter to check oil pressure but its going away in the next week or so for the ECU and wiring so I will need to fit some soon . I have got a few sets of new NGK plugs , will any of them be suitable for this modified engine .

BCP6ES x3

BCP7ES x4

BCPR6ES x4

 

Any recommendations ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
welshpug

7's will be about right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dcc

I used 8's with 12-1 cr, bcr8es

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anthony

I used BCPR7ES on the one that I did - basically the resistor plug equivalent of the standard 1.9 spark plug and easily sourced.

 

Not sure whether the resistor part is really needed, but I know NGK recommend using them on anything with proper engine management hence I used them.

 

I suspect the 6 heat range plugs might be a bit hot depending how much you've skimmed the head by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

I agree 7 is a good choice. I've raced with 6's and even 5's with 12:1 when I couldn't get colder plugs. The 6's last perfectly well. I also use bcr8es.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hoodygoodwood

Thanks , BCP7ES it is then . Will try the resistor type if the mapper thinks they will work better . I should get a decent spark anyway with a new Valeo coilpack and a set of new plug leads .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandy

Some ECUs will play hell if you haven't got resistor plugs, it's rare but can drive you nuts!

 

The plug grade depends to a great extent on mapping cleanliness and accuracy. If you melt a plug tip, you might be lucky and just get a misfire or you might get a valve failure, it's not something I chance. I always recommend killing the engine under sustained load at a high risk area (around 3500-4000RPM typically) and removing the plugs for inspection. NGK 6s will be looking dangerous in a high CR 8v if the mixture is decent and ignition advance well judged, 7s edgy (reddish insulator) and 8s should look content (light/white tip, brown to black edge).

BCR8ESs only generally give any bother if the mapping and cold start are too rich or if the engine is shut off mid cold start, eg cars that are shunted in and out of workshops without warming up properly). They are cheap and best replaced though if they do.

 

Coilpack wise the OE Valeo/Bosch type is very good and with well judged dwell settings, very reliable. Some companies sell Ford type coil pack conversions as "upgrades", this really is pointless, there is nothing better about the Ford one!

Edited by Sandy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DamirGTI

I have around 11.1 CR , using recurved dizzy and 7 grade NGK plugs .. Nowdays when the air is less dense and hotter i can hear ocassional pinking when i floor the engine which I haven't heard during the winter time driving with the same setup and using the same fuel ..

 

So , would be of any benefit replacing 7 grade plugs with colder 8 grade ? meaning will it allow/tolerate more ignition advance with 8 grade plugs ?

 

D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandy

Going to 8s may raise the pinking threshold a bit, but really it's the fuel quality and set up that should be reviewed. If you're not using V-power already, I'd suggest you try it; other fuels that are RON rated the same, don't perform the same in my experience. Otherwise mapped ignition in the right hands is the best way forward, you can usually have your cake and eat it, unless the engine is exceptionally grumpy with excessive CR.

I'm not advocating ignoring it, but some light pinking on medium CR engines can also be harmless; if you've driven a carb 205 Auto up a hill by a wall, you'd think it's about to det to destruction! Similarly some of the big thumper rally Vauxhall engines I used to map, would only pull out of low revs cleanly on the ragged edge of det, but my original settings were maintained, they'd never show any damage or signs of it, in lightweight Escorts/Darrians, they would never be there for long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DamirGTI

Interesting !

Was under impression that the colder plug would lower the pinking threshold , why is the opposite true please ?

 

Actually , i have a "bi-fuel" setup on this engine - lpg and petrol .. I can switch from lpg to petrol or vice versa at any time during the driving but mostly i'm driving on lpg ..

Lpg is said to have round 105-108 octane , and petrol i'm using 100 octane (no shell V power fuel available in my country sadly !) .

When driving on lpg the pinking is much lighter than when i switch to petrol , though on both it's still light pinking nothing major but it does not occur as usual on light rpm. with high engine load but on mid to high rpm - the closer i get to the rev limiter then it starts pinking slightly .

 

Dunno if it can be because of the dizzy "timing scatter" ?! had this before and was much worse until i ditched vacuum advance and locked the vac. mechanism afterward it's much better now but still have that occasional low pinking when approaching to the rev limiter .

Fuel mixtures , both the lpg and petrol are spot on , i can dial them as i wish precisely cos i have WB permanently connected on the car .

 

Mapped ignition - i do agree absolutely , that'll be way much better . But the problem is i really can't find anyone here who does ECU mapping (hence still using/stuck with the dizzy) , theres two guys in entire country who do the mapping but not as good that i would feel safe to let them do the mapping ... only option is to teach myself how to do the mapping , at least ignition only ECU .

Would love to ditch the dizzy ! that's for sure i really had enough of it ..

 

Other options which i've been thinking about , i have complete systems :

 

1.3 Motronic system from late 1.9 DKZ 205

 

Motronic MP3.2 from 2.0 XM/605 turbo

 

Motronic MP3.2 from 2.0 306 S16

 

.. would any of these possibly be good/close enough in terms of fuel/ignition map to retrofit on a 1.9 D6B engine with 11.1 CR instead of Jetronic ?!

 

 

D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

Not having vacuum advance means you wouldn't be getting optimum fuel economy at light loads. The pod typically adds up 6-9 deg. Maybe you're not concerned about that? I'm guessing you've probably got the skills to add management yourself. Creating an ignition map is very easy and I can lend you 8V and 16V maps to compare. Sure, tuning an ignition map to it's optimum can only be done on a dyno. However, with help on here, mapped ignition created by yourself will be better than what you currently have.

 

Locking the dizzy at 60-70 deg BTDC is a pain, if you want to use that to create a base input pulse. It's much easier to use a Motronic crank angle sensor.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DamirGTI

Right , fuel ecconomy doesn't bother me as I'm driving 95% on lpg and its cheap !

 

The dizzy was recurved by H&H but still with the vacuum capsule on and pipe connected was pinking pretty hard on low to mid revs , I had to retard the timing quite a bit .. without it and vac. mechanisms locked i can advance it back up and the engine really goes better .

 

That's very kind Peter ! will open up the thread when I decide to try that mapping stuff , will certainly need some help/assistance .

 

I have few motronic flywheel's and CAS sensors for better triggering components than the dizzy , i also have an MS1 ECU somewhere need to find it ..

 

Would an MS1 system be good base for learning ? or is there something better/easier for begginer ? would like to try "ignition only" system first as that bothers me most .

 

D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandy

You may have misunderstood what I meant by raising threshold? I mean with 8s the engine will be slightly more resistant to pinking/det, than with "hotter" 7s, my point is that's only if the plugs are overheating and promoting it; the pinking/det is not generally triggered by the plugs themselves, it's the overall charge temp/density/mixture quality set against the chamber/piston design's ability to spread the heat well and prevent local collection of bad mixture which will ignite itself through heat/pressure, before the spark generated flame front arrives. Another problem that can affect engine like these with deep squish bands, is trapping/hydraulicing very rich mixture and unmixed "wet" fuel at the edge of the piston down to the top ring at the deepest part of the squish, but you don't generally hear that until it's too late.

Edited by Sandy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
petert

I'm not at all familiar with MS1, so can't comment. I'd look at any 2nd hand ECU that has support for Motronic 60-2. If you can still get pins and connectors, then it's possibly worth buying. You can run it without fuel initially if desired. Ideally you want something with dual maps. If tuned properly, petrol and LPG ignitions maps are very different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×