Embrace The Ew!

[Reebmit 51 4 Cars]

So tempted by an EW 180ps then add supercharger, engines so cheap now! 65,000 miler for £200... bargain ...

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Seems that your angle reading is 40 degrees off..?? Crank pulley is ok?

Would be interesting to see more sample point (3, 7, 8 mm lift) to see the shape better. Nice job btw..

[Tuuba 8]

Seems that your angle reading is 40 degrees off..?? Crank pulley is ok?

Would be interesting to see more sample point (3, 7, 8 mm lift) to see the shape better. Nice job btw..

Yes, everything is setted right and checked many times. First I was sure that something isn´t right, because that almost 40 degree "offset" but I can´figure out what. Cams were at right timingmarks, same as flywheel locking pin was right. Degree wheel is on crank pulley and yes, it´s intact.

So please, be welcome to tell me if you have different data. This was checked multiply times that cam timing pins were in right holes (It´s possible to put those in wrong position)

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

How did you determine the TDC?

 

You should not try to find the highest point of the piston, but take for instance 3 cm before and after tdc and calculate the middle:

 

​

[Tuuba 8]

Yes yes, been there, done that!

TDC is checked allright, but it doesn´t be necessary in this though. When you set up timing belt, the crank is locked to position 90 BTDC (all pistons @halfway), and degree wheel is set on that. You put the belt on, cams positioned in right timing pin holes, naturally. Now, Crank´s degree wheel sits on 90BTDC. You turn the engine 90 degrees and there you go, you have all in TDC position. You can do it both ways, doesn´t affect to result. At least not other engines and here in Finland

 

Intake is @ordinary/typical but exhaust is surprisingly "late". I think i found an explanation to that and it´s called "internal EGR". Don´t know for sure but it seems that way. Exhaust is a littlebit late and it makes some flowback before closing. Makes sense, because few other brands uses this on their gasoline engines with VVT. And EW10J4S has different kind of EGR systems than regular 136bhp version.

Either way, seemed to work pretty well with turbo, thanks to overlap.

That´s why I´m here asking for other results but it seems that no one else has not measured the cams for EW10J4S? I´m still not 100% fine with the results, but that really is the result, I´ve checked it so many times now. If not, someting is really wrong in my engine. I even checked that cam sprockets are attached correctly, but yes they were. Also, as I said, timing pins were @right holes.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Tuuba

[dcc 855]

Hi

 

Can any one advise on the standard ew12j4 and ew10j4s engine camshaft specification?

 

Also does anybody have infornation regarding the compression ratio on both these engines?

 

And lastly, does anybody have a valve clearance figure for both engines?

 

Thanks in advance.

Dan

[RossD 43]

Ahhh, I might be able to help with the EW10J4S cams - I'm in the process of measuring the ones in my engine.

 

I need to confirm these figures by remeasuring, however inlet cam on the EW10J4S has 9.6mm lift (measured from the cam lobe with a DTI) and approx 200 degrees duration @ 1mm. The reason I'm going to re-measure is because the duration looks too low.....

Will post a plot when I've confirmed all results.

 

As for valve clearance, there is none given for a standard engine as they run hydraulic lifters. If you are going to run solid lifters, I would follow advice from your cam manufacturer.

Edited September 10, 2015 by RossD

[welshpug 1,621]

I found theyre all 10.8-1 compression ratio.

[welshpug 1,621]

mi16's are 214degrees at 1.27mm so 200 @ 1mm isn't wildly off.

[RossD 43]

mi16's are 214degrees at 1.27mm so 200 @ 1mm isn't wildly off.

 

Yes, but according to CatCams website, the inlet cam for the EW10J4 (i.e the 138bhp version) is 207 degrees @ 1mm. I suppose the VVT may make up the gap somewhat, but seems odd none the less.

 

 

I found theyre all 10.8-1 compression ratio.

 

Even the J4S? They are listed as 11:1 and do have different pistons.... I'll be able to confirm when the head comes off mine and I measure it though!

[welshpug 1,621]

ahh yes, forgot about the S! I found a pdf for the D9 406 that listed all the others.

Edited September 10, 2015 by welshpug

[razza987 0]

Hi guys, thought I'd add to this thread with some specs of my 206 Gti race car engine, might be helpful.

1999 Gti (138)

45mm ITB's (no filter)

Emerald ECU

Newman custom profile cams (all other internals are standard)

Tubular exhaust manifold

2 1/2" Hayward & Scott exhaust - no cat

 

Had the car on the dyno for a power run yesterday at A Reeve Performance in Kings Lynn. I was told it was around 175bhp when I bought it 3 1/2 years ago so it was a nice surprise to find it over that, with dodgy fuelling and an engine that's down on compression (100psi v 125psi back in April). It was still making power when it hit the limiter at 6800rpm. Better fuelling and a stronger engine with a few more revs should see 195-200bhp. Really need to find out what profile the Newman "Custom" cams are though. Thinking of putting the 138 head onto a 180 bottom end, does anyone know the CR would be? Engine is on its last legs now so when I pull it over the winter we may as well aim for a bit more power...

 

 

Edited September 26, 2015 by razza987

[welshpug 1,621]

torque looks a bit low, longer trumpets and a sausage filter would be my suggestion, though there is a decent spread, peaks quite high so might be a bit of timing too.

 

compression would be 11-1 if thats what the 180 runs as its the pistons that make the difference, I wouldn't swap it for just that, given how scarce and expensive they are.

Edited September 26, 2015 by welshpug

[razza987 0]

torque looks a bit low, longer trumpets and a sausage filter would be my suggestion, though there is a decent spread, peaks quite high so might be a bit of timing too.

compression would be 11-1 if thats what the 180 runs as its the pistons that make the difference, I wouldn't swap it for just that, given how scarce and expensive they are.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

The combustion chamber is smaller on the 138 head, so it's not that simple. Also, the 180 bottom end is good for 7300rpm so there's more than one reason to do it, we're on the limit of the standard 138 bottom end at the moment.

I have some longer trumpets to go on when it's rebuilt, need to sort a filter setup (injectors and PAS pump both get in the way of a normal ITB filter backplate).

Cheers,

Raz

[RossD 43]

The 180 (EW10J4S) has different pistons (Made by Mahle) and rods, with floating gudgeon pins, as opposed to a pressed fit in the 'normal' EW10. The 180 engine also uses a different oil pump. Servicebox suggests the crank is also different.

 

A much better change would probably be the 180 head on a 137 bottom end. However that brings the VVT in to the equation, so you'd either have to use that somehow or disable it.

 

Both engines have forged rods, however the 137 EW10 does seem to have a bit of a reputation for snapping / throwing rods for some reason.

Edited September 27, 2015 by RossD

[razza987 0]

A much better change would probably be the 180 head on a 137 bottom end. However that brings the VVT in to the equation, so you'd either have to use that somehow or disable it.

 

Hi mate,

I don't really understand your thinking here. With the 180 head on the 138 bottom end you'd end up with a lower CR and weaker rods/pistons, that makes no sense. I'd understand someone recommending using a complete 180 engine (although I'd have to buy cams for it whereas I can use the cams I have if I keep the 138 head - it's all about budget!). I also don't need VVT on a race engine so that's no positive for me.

Cheers,

Raz

[welshpug 1,621]

Your 138 cams will fit the 180?

[RossD 43]

But what will the 180 bottom end give you? 400 extra revs to play with? Hardly worth the effort. Putting a 180 head on will probably mean you can make more power at lower revs if you can solve the compression ratio problem. Both blocks share the same limitations of a long stroke with relatively short rods (139mm) which doesn't make for a particularly high revving engine.

 

You may as well put forged pistons / rods in your existing block rather than play around with an unknown (worn) 180 bottom end, it's what I would do anyway!

 

Yes - you can use the 138 cams in the 180 head, however due to the smaller followers/lifters on the 138 the profiles arent as wild as those that are available for the 180. I think (Although not confirmed) you may also be able to use XU10J4RS cams in the 180 cylinder head too (If you aren't using the VVT that is)

Edited September 28, 2015 by RossD

[Sandy 189]

RS cams need the larger follower face to acommodate their rapid opening/closing speed.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Sandy

[RossD 43]

Indeed Sandy, that's what i was alluding too in my post above :-)

[welshpug 1,621]

I think theyre larger again than the 180 follower.

[Sandy 189]

138 has 28.4mm, 180 30mm, RS 32mm

[RossD 43]

Ahh gotcha.

[welshpug 1,621]

I've noticed the cams listed for the EW's arent too far off the duration listed for an XU, but a good bit less peak lift, might be they don't need the valves open as far, or its a limitation of the valvetrain?

[Sandy 189]

With less opening and closing speed available (follower diameter dictates safe maximum), less lift can be achieved within a duration window. This window can be pushed by running on the edge of the follower or by reducing the ramp to flank transition and making the initial acceleration more violent (as Cat profiles typically do compared to others), which gives a sharp induction note and good dynamic CR, but at the expense of durability; harder on followers, springs and seats, especially on solid lifters if the clearances widen marginally. I favour keeping more margin in the valvetrain and optimising cylinder filling in other ways, requires smarter development, but is more reliable and the performance lasts better beyond the initial headline dyno session!