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Tuuba

Hello from Finland! (and sorry my weird english :D)

 

I´m making an EW10J4S-turbo conversion for my 205 GTi and I have a couple of questions:

 

What´s the difference between EW10J4 and EW10J4S oil pumps? They have a different numbering. 180:s is 1001 E0 and 136:s is 1001 C7. I just wonder if 180 one is more rigid or does it have different bypass opening or something?

 

I have been reading somewhere that block has an oil outlet (pressure) plug somewhere to turbo, is that right? Behind it, in the flywheel end?

 

I´m building my engine with OE parts, alltough rod BE bearings are Glyco brand from standard 136bhp EW. I want to check how much it can handle in original shape.

Here in Finland no one has really tried to build an EW engine because it´s poor reputation (I dont understand that). At least this 180bhp version is built almost fully different pieces than standard 136. If you compare these two, only valve covers and timing belt tensioner/guide are the same. Oh and crank bearings. People thinks that it cant give/handle much torque because of it´s poor conrod/stroke ratio (139mm rods are so short). We´ll see about that

 

Specs to become:

Engine:

Standard refurbished EW10J4S with OE pistons and rods. CR also standard

rev limiter stand about 7500-8000RPM

E85 Fuel

Megasquirt 3 based ATDriveboard ECU with COP coils and Siemens Deka V 875cc injectors, 4*EGT and Innovate WB, Bluetooth and external tablet for additional gauges.

Plan is to keep the VVT in action because ECU supports it.

Professionally modified Garrett GT40 turbocharger with .88 Motorsport turbine housing and external 38mm WG, manifold is modified from OE S´s one.

Intake manifold standard EW10J4S with 70mm cable assisted TB

Boost pressure about 1-1,5 bar

 

If there are some advices, I would be happy to hear them :)

 

Few pics attached:

1: semi-ready exhaust manifold ready for TIG welding

2: Overall view how charger and WG will fit

3: Overall view how engine sits (Yes, i have a spare front end from one scrapped 1.6 GTi, very handy for this purpose)

4: DIY upper mounting for EW-to-205

 

 

post-22118-0-38394700-1394119062_thumb.jpg

post-22118-0-24772300-1394119127_thumb.jpg

post-22118-0-72729100-1394119142_thumb.jpg

post-22118-0-83596200-1394119153_thumb.jpg

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2052NV

Awesome man, thats alot of pressure to throw at standard compression, Will be interesting to see how it goes! :)

 

You need to start a build thread for this!

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Kane

Just out of interest if you were to fit the larger 2.2 hdi crank into the ew10j4s what piston/rod combination would be recommended to use?

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welshpug

something that fits :lol:

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Kane

There's an idea :lol: what I should have said was is there any standard items that would work or would it be a custom jobby?

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Sandy

Rod/stroke ratio would be too severe with that crank in the EW10 block, you'd need to use the EW12 block and then the crank would be a straight swap.

Edited by Sandy

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Kane

Ah ok Sandy, thanks for the info

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taihau

Hi , how do you make your engine 2.3l sandy ?

 

Have you ever try to fit gsxr individual throttle body to ew10j4 ?

I m searching for an inlet manifold to adapt gsxr itb to ew10j4.

 

Please sandy.

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Tuuba

I´m just assembling my EW10J4S (new version, 2005) and I´m concerned about missing flow-back valve from the head. Actually is there one in -S engine? Service box tells that yes ( part 0235 16), but there´s not :/

Can I install it without or what? Place is different than in EW10J4, EW10A doesn´t have that at all, neither does EW12? Is SB wrong?

Here´s link to picture from head:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=B4ECB9551CC6282E!1819&authkey=!AEhGIziDfHYGfy4&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

 

Thanks already :)

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Sandy

I don't run one in my engines and TUs don't have them. I wouldn't be concerned.

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lion5

keeping an eye out on this thread from time to time.

 

Recently got an '87 205 and am keeping my options open for the ageing 8V that's in here. It's becoming harder and harder finding Mi16/XU10 engines here in Australia, yet the availability of EW10J4/ EW10J4S engines from wrecked 206s/307s/407s is only going up.

 

I also own a 206 gti as well and while I do love the sound of the EW10, i think the XU9 in there has way more character soundwise. That being said I want to revive my 205 and I want it to be relatively easy for a complete beginner.

 

Some questions

 

Would the EW10 and BE1 gearbox fit together seeing as the BE1 and BE3 are virtually the same. Or would jumping into this entail me grabbing a BE4 while i'm at it.

 

I know nothing when it comes to rebuilding/swapping engines so I plan to learn as I go along fixing up dribs and drabs in my current 205, hoping to last me until I get the courage to work on a rebuild/complete engine/gearbox swap.

 

What exactly at the difficult parts of the swap?

I understand the mux/non-mux complexity in electrics. My 206 is a muxed one I have enough problems getting the s*itty radio wiring to read the disc changer as an aux port.

Engine wise: Are there any difficulties with mount points etc? Will the standard inlet manifold fit without any hassle? The 138 manifold btw is plastic that comes in more parallel to the block, while the 180 one is the metal one.

I noticed a few posts back a custom top mount bracket welded for an EW10 fit with turbo in a 205 chassis

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=18459 and

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=18458

 

Is this something that drawings can be requested for or would I literally have to make one myself (no metalwork experience either)

 

Thanks all

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Tuuba

I´m just assembling my EW10J4S (new version, 2005) and I´m concerned about missing flow-back valve from the head. Actually is there one in -S engine? Service box tells that yes ( part 0235 16), but there´s not :/

Can I install it without or what? Place is different than in EW10J4, EW10A doesn´t have that at all, neither does EW12? Is SB wrong?

Here´s link to picture from head:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=B4ECB9551CC6282E!1819&authkey=!AEhGIziDfHYGfy4&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg

 

Thanks already :)

I reply this also by myself: EW10J4S doesn´t have that valve, Servicebox has wrong info in parts list/pictures (got to be first time for me and i`m using it daily in my work). In factory repair data, you discover that valve is only in EW10J4´s head. Not in heads with VVT. I also found out that some sources give you wrong info about timing belt change. So be careful that you select right instructions for your engine! Autodata claimed that my engine´s crank pulley is with cotter bit but naturally it isn´t because where else would you trim timing, Exhaust cam pulley is rubber-metal vulcanized vibration damper and VVT is in intake. Must be cool that someone opens crank end bolt without realizing that you mess the timing.

Propably all of you know this already, but here it seems to be all new thing that someone is trying to build engine this modern :D

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Kane

Sandy just a quick question regarding engine angle. For packaging purposes on a project I'm thinking about would there be any issues in rotating this engine 15 degrees so it sits vertical? I'm not sure if this will need to happen as yet but if so would I have to look at modifying the oil pick up at all? Thanks

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rallyeash

Colin's XU is near sat vertical.

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allanallen

Colin's XU is near sat vertical.

Dry sumped though isn't it?

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Kane

From reading his thread I believe it is dry sumped, unfortunately my pockets aren't deep enough for that.

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welshpug

Dry sumped though isn't it?

yep.

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Tuuba

Oil pan mod isn´t necessary, but IMO, it´s preferable. With -40mm lowering springs, the gap between oil pan´s rear end and ground is about 10cm, so it goes pretty much lower than subframe, and that´s little risky.

PS: My engine is now tested with STD parts, and in went as I expected... :D It pulled like hell with 1 bar, everything else handles it very well but conrods didn´t. All 4 went twisted, nothing else happened but they went about 2-3 mm short. Now planning some reinforcements.

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Kane

The project I'm looking at isn't a 205 but at a guess I'd say that it would be slightly lower than even a ride height on -40 springs.

 

Shame about your engine, did you have it on the rollers? Any idea what power you were putting down which ended up wrecking the engine?

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Sandy

The pick up and sump pan would need to be modified to suit vertical installation.

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Tuuba

No, we didn´t get that far! :P (on rollers)

I have couple of videos, this one filmed @0.8bar boost. When we rised boost up to 1, my friend couldn´t film it because he had to keep his laptop tight on his lap. I can´t say more than it was surprisingly fast!

I had a clutch wich was supposed to be checked to handle at least 400Nm, but it started to slip on 4th and 5th gear when making full acceleration from 60-200km/h First, turbo started to spool up @3000, @4000 it reached full 1bar and then it all started, Quaife had full worko to determine where the hell he could share all those Newtons, and about in 120-130km/h speed @5th gear, the clutch started to slip.

It´s all speculated but we think it had 400+ horsepower and 400+ torque. No wonder that OE conrods didn´t keep up with it. Alltough, they didnt wear off that quickly, we stamped it quite heavily for couple of days, for about 60 liters of ethanol were burnt.

But everything else seems to handle that boost pretty well, oil circulation was good, lubing worked well on STD 5W40 cheap oil, bearings were in good shape, block and even the pistons were like new. No signs of any other beginning failure. And seems that the standard cylinder head gives as much as you want when using forced induction. And thanks to VVT, you can spool up even a GT40 on a reasonable rounds (3000RPM @this case) Now I just need to think over new setup for block internals, that can handle MUCH. Has enyone tried 8.5 CR Wiseco pistons and K1 rods succesfully, or should I just save money on Carrillo´s and CP´s?

 

Oh yeah, that video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieZQGJLx4B4&list=UUYpOyBXc8NKqhoaJS2oBQvQ

 

And let´s just say that performance changed a LOT from that when boost got over 1 bar, then it started to BREATHE.

 

We managed to get that much experience from EW10J4S, that there´s not going back to XU´s for me :wub:

Engine has it´s own lacks, but we think we can win those by making a lower engine strong enough for that induction. The head is absolutely wonderful.

Edited by Tuuba

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Sandy

Pistons are like tyres, they're the crucial link in translating the combustion into power and the better quality you use, the better the engine will work and for longer. Rods are generally less critical in a boosted engine to N/A, since the compressive loads of boost are less destructive generally compared to the high tensile loads and fatigue of an N/A engine pulling higher revs, but even so, don't put budget bits in an engine if you don't want them to destroy all your hard work and potentially leave you with a sudden loss of power or unwanted engine braking at high speed.

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Tuuba

Is it true that EW10J4S has quite mild camshafts? lift is 9,6mm but are they really only with 210deg. duration? Feels odd because good performance figures at stock engine and worked so well with turbo also.

Does anyone have specs/charts ready for stock cams?

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Tuuba

I measured the cams by myself, but is this really true!? I tried many times, but results were always the same: Exhaust is fully open @ 75deg BTDC, it can´t be right, can it? I triplechecked the belt timing and everything is OK, if you put exhaust at the wrong hole, it´s even more advanced than now... Curver became little spiky, because laziness...

Please tell me what did I do wrong?

I even took both cam pulleys off and checked timing marks was correct. Flywheel is locked properly when setted (90deg BTDC)

Please help the idiot :D

 

WP_20141005_17_02_34_Pro.jpg​

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