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renault 17

Xu5 J4 Conversion

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Sandy

Decking the block that much really isn't practical.

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Batfink

I was trying to come up with solutions so I could use a 1.6 crank with 1.9/mi16 rods and pistons as decking a block would surely be cheaper than custom parts but I did not realise the big end journals were smaller on the 1.6 than the bigger capacity variants...plan scuppered as you still end up needing custom parts whichever way you look lol.

 

Just for clarification i think Matt said you would need to deck the block half of 15mm so 7.5mm - still a lot though

He suggested milling down a 1.8 crank to 80.8mm stroke or something then looking at using either gti-6 or possibly s-16 rods (52cm and 48cm??) though our chat was only very brief as they were shutting up for christmas.

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B1ack_Mi16
I was trying to come up with solutions so I could use a 1.6 crank with 1.9/mi16 rods and pistons as decking a block would surely be cheaper than custom parts but I did not realise the big end journals were smaller on the 1.6 than the bigger capacity variants...plan scuppered as you still end up needing custom parts whichever way you look lol.

 

Just for clarification i think Matt said you would need to deck the block half of 15mm so 7.5mm - still a lot though

He suggested milling down a 1.8 crank to 80.8mm stroke or something then looking at using either gti-6 or possibly s-16 rods (52cm and 48cm??) though our chat was only very brief as they were shutting up for christmas.

 

Hehe, still sounds pretty dodgy the whole plan :P

Custom Crower rods made to spec cost approx 375£ + vat and I would think that muct be the neatest solution, and good rods are never a bad thing anyway.

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taffycrook

I have spoken at length to the Fella who built the two cars I have come across with a 1600 mi16. He has retired and only builds engines for special customers now. But he still will not give me the exact details of the custom parts.

But he used std 1600 cranks in all but the highest spec motors. Well balanced I may add.

The pistons and rods are the key to the whole thing, the cams are solid lifter jobs but we all know the limits of the mi16 when it comes to cam selection.

The expense of the custom parts means this is no longer a viable engine for cheap motorsport.

You can get 200 bhp 1600's for much less outlay. Why not find a rusty crx vetec. That has just about all you need to make a very light strong and powerfull motor.

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Batfink

As ever rules get in the way. To make the car eligible for as many series as possible I have to use Peugeot parts or start again with a different car.

I guess I could go to using a 106 or a saxo but I personally think the xu engines are superior to the tu engines when hunting for big power - it will also give me the flexibility to move up classes by stroking the engine to get 2.1-2.4litres when I want to compete at a higher level. Yes I could move to another marque but I have no experience or knowledge with any so really have no idea what works and what doesnt so there would be a lot of experimentation needed to build a class winning car.

Black_mi16 - I think you are on the right lines - the rods are the key to how to go about the build..

Taffycrook - very interesting about the crank and sounds like the standard one will cope depending on the cam choice.

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Batfink

looks a laugh :angry: not sure I can finance another drive till later in the year though. Itching to do it again though so we will have to organise another team

Edited by Batfink

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ginjaspeed
right i'm going to dig up this thread rather than start another. For some reason I was dreaming about engines and I was wondering if you could deck the mi16 block so you could use a standard mi16 piston and rod with a 1.6 crank.

 

Would it be a simple case of decking it 15mm??? (difference between 73 and 88mm cranks)

 

Of course you will need to do the same to the liners but I feel there is something blindingly obvious that I am missing that will make this idea impossible.

 

 

With this conversion, you have to use high compression pistons, otherwise the engine won't make good power as the reduction in capacity requires a reduction in the head chamber size. Using the standard Mi piston will result in too much needing to be removed from the head!

 

It is possible to modify the 1.6 rod to suit the mi style piston, this does require the block being decked, but only by about 38 thou of the top of my head!

 

I have one of these engines sat in my garage awaiting a shell for it to be used again, if would like to know any more don't hesitate to ask.

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petert
It is possible to modify the 1.6 rod to suit the mi style piston, this does require the block being decked, but only by about 38 thou of the top of my head!

 

You could bush the 1.6 little ends and get custom pistons made, but given you'll be ringing it's neck (8000+) to make decent power I'd be getting new custom rods as well, with 22 or 23mm diameter pins. It's really not a project you can do cheaply.

 

You still need a dome type piston, not a flat top, to get a decent CR.

Edited by petert

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ginjaspeed
You could bush the 1.6 little ends and get custom pistons made, but given you'll be ringing it's neck (8000+) to make decent power I'd be getting new custom rods as well, with 22 or 23mm diameter pins. It's really not a project you can do cheaply.

 

You still need a dome type piston, not a flat top, to get a decent CR.

 

 

This is what i've done with my engine, however she make great power way before 8000, so i'm not worried about the rod 'issue'

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renault 17
With this conversion, you have to use high compression pistons, otherwise the engine won't make good power as the reduction in capacity requires a reduction in the head chamber size. Using the standard Mi piston will result in too much needing to be removed from the head!

 

It is possible to modify the 1.6 rod to suit the mi style piston, this does require the block being decked, but only by about 38 thou of the top of my head!

 

I have one of these engines sat in my garage awaiting a shell for it to be used again, if would like to know any more don't hesitate to ask.

 

What sort of power did your engine make and what did you rev it to?

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ginjaspeed

160 bhp at the wheels @ 7500, i rev her to 8 max as she tails off a little after 7500.

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vickiw106

does anyone of anybody that would be able to do the work in the midlands area

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welshpug

could try Neal at DES-developments :rolleyes:

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markw

Vicki

 

Try Roy Burrell race Engines in coventry he has built 3or4 very successful sprint and hillclimb engines in 205s and 106s mine held 2 class records,he is building me a Mi16/8v/Gti6 hybrid,for my mod prod car hopefully will make 230-250hp

 

pm me if you want his number

 

 

does anyone of anybody that would be able to do the work in the midlands area
Edited by markw

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bobob
Vicki

 

Try Roy Burrell race Engines in coventry he has built 3or4 very successful sprint and hillclimb engines in 205s and 106s mine held 2 class records,he is building me a Mi16/8v/Gti6 hybrid,for my mod prod car hopefully will make 230-250hp

 

pm me if you want his number

 

 

sounds interesting, anymore details on your new engine? :unsure:

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philfingers
does anyone of anybody that would be able to do the work in the midlands area

Don Loughlin Engineering in Hartlebury has a good reputation. SPGti is using him to build his new engine. He made a lovely job of my Mi flywheel too,

 

Phil

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tri_longer
Vicki

 

Try Roy Burrell race Engines in coventry he has built 3or4 very successful sprint and hillclimb engines in 205s and 106s mine held 2 class records,he is building me a Mi16/8v/Gti6 hybrid,for my mod prod car hopefully will make 230-250hp

 

Thats interesting as I'm having the same built for mine, though not by the above mentioned company. Not sure we will see quite as much power as yours , expectation is about 210bhp.

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SPGTi
Don Loughlin Engineering in Hartlebury has a good reputation. SPGti is using him to build his new engine. He made a lovely job of my Mi flywheel too,

 

Phil

 

 

Yep Don at Hartlebury, been building engines since the 60's and has been involved with quite a few high power XU engine builds. The only problem is he is always very busy.

 

Steve

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markw

engine spec so far

mi16 alloy block

1.9 8v crank lightened and balanced

mi16 rods L&B and shot peened

new 83.5mm mi16 liners

omega 83.5mm forged pistons

gti6 head ported and polished

catcams 4903271

285 / 277°

252 / 244°

13.25 / 12.75mm

3.90 / 3.35mm

Solid lifters

double valve spring

catcams adjustable verinears

12.5 to 1 C.R

throttle bodies(possibly sandys)

and emerald management

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vickiw106
engine spec so far

mi16 alloy block

1.9 8v crank lightened and balanced

mi16 rods L&B and shot peened

new 83.5mm mi16 liners

omega 83.5mm forged pistons

gti6 head ported and polished

catcams 4903271

285 / 277°

252 / 244°

13.25 / 12.75mm

3.90 / 3.35mm

Solid lifters

double valve spring

catcams adjustable verinears

12.5 to 1 C.R

throttle bodies(possibly sandys)

and emerald management

 

 

whats the reason for using a gti6 head

 

also what sort of bhp do you expect from it

Edited by vickiw106

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bobob
also what sort of bhp do you expect from it

 

 

he is building me a Mi16/8v/Gti6 hybrid,for my mod prod car hopefully will make 230-250hp

 

 

:ph34r:

Edited by bobob

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vickiw106

:ph34r::P

 

should really read the thread

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