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MattD

Berlingo Beam, Rear Discs Etc

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MattD

Hi there,

 

Newbie here.

 

I am after some information, that you lot may be able to help me with.

 

I'm building a track car, it's not a 405, it's not even PSA, but I am using a torsion rear beam.

 

I've just got hold of a Berlingo rear beam from the scrap yard, I've gone for this beam as the track width is 1500 so 20mm over the existing setup that it is replacing.

 

It's drum brakes however. I'm sure they're OK to use but if it is possible I'd much rather have discs on the back.

 

Do any of you know what parts I may be able to raid from a scrap yard in order to convert? Finding an Mi16 in a yard is near on impossible.

 

 

For example, will stub pins and all the other associated parts from an XSi or HDi beam fit? Or do I seriously have to get an mi16 beam just for the disc conversion?

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Matt

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Jer309GTi

Rear disc brakes on 405's are the same as far as I know, also you could look out for a Berlingo/Partner with ABS as these should have discs on the back too. 306 brakes could even work on the back, but that is just a guess

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MattD

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply. Not having knowledge of PSA vehicles, did other 405's come with disc brakes other than the Mi16?

 

Berlingo with ABS? This beam has ABS, I was not aware of any berlingos with discs, except the newer models with simple beams.

 

Cheers

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Jer309GTi

Yes, GRi, SRi, some TD's, sure it says in the 405 Haynes manual which ones do.

 

With regards to Berlingo, my mistake sorry I usumed the older ones with ABS had rear discs like the newer ones. I've got a Partner van (same as Berlingo) but that has drums on the back.

 

What car are you building out of interest? :)

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MattD

Done!

 

OK, so I should start looking for them in my area, I'll get the entire beam if poss.

 

If anyone else has any firm information please post up!

 

Cheers

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MattD

Update,

 

Just had a call from a breaker who has a disc beam, don't know what from, but it has discs.

 

Going to check it out tomorrow. Will update!

 

Cheers

Matt

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Jer309GTi

Your not too far away from me :) Try the breaker in Radstock (Hallmark I think it's called) as they used to have a couple of 405's, also theres a few good ones around the Shepton Mallet area too. Also a Pug breaker in Brislington, Bristol near Halfords/Maplin.

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B1ack_Mi16

It's quite easy to convert to discs.

 

Afaik the wheelbearing/hub is the same both with discs and drums.

 

I think you need to undo the hub-nut then pull the hub/bearing off.

 

Then unbolt the backplate of the drum. (3 bolts to the arm) and bolt on a caliper mounting bracket instead.

Re-use the hub/bearing if in good nick.

 

Or you could also choose to swap the complete trailing arm of course.

 

I'm using 405 trailing arms on my Berlingo rear beam that I have on my daily driver.

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MattD

Great, thanks for the info!

 

I had a look at the beam in the breakers and took some measurements, it's pretty much exactly like the berlingo beam in every way.

 

 

Not sure about the ARB and torsion thickness though, this berlingo beam has 19.8 [minus rust] torsion bars and 20.5 ARB. I think the 405 beam had 19ish mm torsions and 19mm ARB. There was an estate with drums there, and that had 20.5 torsion bars...

 

 

So next...what uprated bars can I get to fit? without having to buy yet ANOTHER rear beam from a breakers!

 

And also, is it true that if I get 205 1.6 gti front pad carriers I can fit them to the beam for bigger discs? Wowzers

 

Cheers!

Edited by MattD

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B1ack_Mi16

The largest avaliable rear ARB is 22mm I think, from Berlingo/Partner, the 405 Mi16 only had 21mm.

 

For the torsion bars the partner/berlingo has 21.3mm bars avaliable.

 

However, you can buy aftermarket bars, peugeot 309 bars have the same length and splines as the 405/partner/berlingo ones, so if you are to uprate them that will be the way to go.

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MattD

Yes I see that 25.4 ARBs and 24mm torsion bars can be bought!!

 

I will have to see how the OE ones fair for now, seeing as there's not much weight at the back, it might be a bit overkill, but we'll see!

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B1ack_Mi16

Just keep in mind it's only the torsion bars from the 309 that can be used.

 

I don't think there are any readily avaliable uprated ARBs for the 405/Berlingo beams. So the biggest you can buy is the largest avaliable from the Berlingo/Partner.

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welshpug

get in touch with Anthony on some of the other pug forums, if you let him know the length of the bar he may well be abl to get one made up for you.

 

1193mm long according to servicebox, you'd just need to confirm the length diameter and number of splines.

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MattD

Sounds interesting! I will have to "test" the rear axle once it's rebuilt and has some GAZ shocks fitted up!

 

Will update here once I've fab'd up the frame!

 

Cheers.

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MattD

OK

 

Collected the disc beam from the breakers this morning, cleaned it up, removed the bars, and hey presto

 

1.JPG

 

2.JPG

 

The bars came out rather easily actually, one didn't even need hitting, it just came out with the tool!

 

The arms move freely and there is no end-play, does that mean the beam and arms are in good order?

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B1ack_Mi16

Yes if you can't feel any slack it means it is usually in good nick.

 

But I would slide off the arms anyway, just to make sure things are in good nick. Especially bearings/seals etc.

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cammmy

TBH I'd just replace the bearings for peace of mind. Should be easy as with the beam out of the car but it takes about a day to do it in car (and that's if you have new arms ready to go like I did for the BX)

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MattD

Yea I'm going to get it rebuilt with grease nipples anyway, I just wanted a decent beam to start with!

 

How do I get bigger brakes with these calipers? They aren't the same as the picture I've seen for fitting front vented discs to the rear!

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MattD

Oh, and do I just knock the arm off the pin?

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cybernck

Here's a guide for a 205 rear beam refurb, but it should be a similar (if not the same) procedure for your rear beam:

 

http://www.205gtidrivers.com/articles.php?...-rearbeamrefurb

 

 

Those calipers look like 405 rear calipers, rather than 205/306 calipers you've seen converted for larger vented discs.

 

However, I think you could apply the same logic to these calipers, it's just a matter of getting the matching parts.

 

I don't think you'll need upgraded rear brakes really, other than track-specific pads perhaps.

 

 

P.S. Come on, tell us, what's it going on? :)

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Jer309GTi
P.S. Come on, tell us, what's it going on? :)

 

+1 :)

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MattD

Cheers for the link.

 

Yea I figured my calipers were different...

 

I don't want to say too much in case it doesn't work, though I'm sure it will!

 

I should get it sited in the next two weeks, so I'll update then ;)

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B1ack_Mi16

You can get for example Audi S4/RS4 rear yokes and calipers and bolt them straight on.

Then you need to find suitable discs. I suppose more Audi/VAG stuff in general will bolt straight on.

It's the same yokes used on the 4x4 rear end as the regular 405 torsion rear beams so the center-center distance is spot on.

 

Ref. this:

http://forum.405mi16.com/index.php?showtop...ost&p=18079

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cammmy

With the BX, once everything was undone the arm just slid off.

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