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opticaltrigger

[race_prep] Turbo Hill Climb Project

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DrSarty

Some seriously nice work there.

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opticaltrigger

Thanks very much Sarty,much appreciated.

It's geting there but as I'm sure your aware yourself,these things take forever to get a short distance.But I am geting that feeling that it's starting to move towards the home straight now.

Anyway thanks again and all the best.

 

O.T.

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opticaltrigger

There's nothing quite like siting down at the PC and typing aload of stuff in,get halfway through loading your photos and having the bloody thing crash on you.Anyway were uncrashed now so I can start all over again.

Work on the car has been chuging along slowly but surley.The cockpit area of the car looks like an explosion in a wire factory as I'm in the middle of sorting out the electrical system.I finaly got the sequential coil per plug ignition system I've been fumbling with up to a working prototype level and will be wiring it in in the next week or so.Really looking forward to runing it on the engine now,it's going to mean that we can run an enourmous plug gap which will be really interesting to see.

The front end of the car has been coming on really well also.Had a great result on the intercooler at 15 quid.We decided to run it on top of the engine in the end as we felt that the plumbing would be easier to manage and to be honest I quite like it up there now I see it.The engine space is starting to become what's called prime real estate at the moment with space in there geting gobeled up at an alarming rate.

Anyway here's some pictures of how it's all been going.

 

All the best

O.T.

 

SD530817.jpg

SD530814-1.jpg

SD530815-1.jpg

SD530816-1.jpg

SD530818.jpg

SD530819.jpg

SD530820.jpg

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Tom Fenton

I would really think hard about putting the intercooler there. It will more likely become an "interwarmer".

 

There is room to put it at the front.

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opticaltrigger

Hi Tom,great to hear from you again.

I thought that with a nice big bonnet scoop the same dimensions as the cooler it would'nt be to bad as there's quite a large gap under it,do you not think that will work?.I would love to hear your thoughts back on that Tom,please.

 

O.T.

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swordfish210
I would really think hard about putting the intercooler there. It will more likely become an "interwarmer".

 

There is room to put it at the front.

 

Definetly. It's the same as the standard IC position on the 306 Derv's. They have a vent which allows some flow when moving over about 30mph but as soon as you are stationary it gets massive heat soak which can cause a whole host of problems.

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Tom Fenton

There is not much more work involved to put it at the front. I would (and DID) do this. If you are careful it can all fit behind the front end and look standard from the outside.

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opticaltrigger

Hi Swordfish,Well I've been sitting here thinking about whats being said about the heat soak issue.

I have to say though guys,that I really do think that with a big scoop and apature there will be quite some air movement across that cooler.

As you said though Swordfish,heat soak when stationary could be an issue but I reckon that a small electric fan under the IC could move just about enough air over it to keep things under controll till your moving again.

 

O.T.

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Tom Fenton

All I will say is, look at cars fitted as standard with top mount intercoolers.

 

What is the first thing anyone seriously tuning any of these cars does?

 

Junks the top mount IC and fits a front mounted IC.

 

Anyway each to their own, and up to you.

 

But I'd mount it at the front.

 

Even with my Intercooler at the front, after a quick run if I get caught in traffic it is down on power and very occasionally dets with a boot afterwards. A top mount can only be worse.

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opticaltrigger
All I will say is, look at cars fitted as standard with top mount intercoolers.

 

What is the first thing anyone seriously tuning any of these cars does?

 

Junks the top mount IC and fits a front mounted IC.

 

Anyway each to their own, and up to you.

 

But I'd mount it at the front.

 

Even with my Intercooler at the front, after a quick run if I get caught in traffic it is down on power and very occasionally dets with a boot afterwards. A top mount can only be worse.

 

Pretty good points there Tom,and belive me,you can imagine,I'm sitting here trying to think of an intelligent come back to that but I cant.I'll go away and have a little think on this.But it's this kind of forum discusion which is great really.Thanks gents.

 

All the best

O.T.

Edited by opticaltrigger

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swordfish210

Well the Subaru Imprezas get good results with TMIC's and a large scoop, but they also have the spray bar across the top which shoots ice cold water at the cooler if it is getting a bit hot. On the other hand most Impreza owners, as soon as they are going for more power than standard, move the IC to the front of the car and fit an oil cooler below the scoop.

 

Theres also the downside of the TMIC that it makes the engine more difficult to work on as if you want to do most things you have to unbolt it all. If it was my car there would be no question that i would have it on the front, i don't think you'll get any better results on the top of the engine even with the fan, scoop and possibly a spray bar than you would if it was front mounted.

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Tom Fenton
Pretty good points there Tom,and belive me,you can imagine,I'm sitting here trying to think of an intelligent come back to that but I cant.I'll go away and have a little think on this.But it's this kind of forum discusion which is great really.Thanks gents.

 

All the best

O.T.

 

Well no need to think up a come back, just bear it in mind.

 

I'm actually quite suprised at my own reasoning, as I wrote that last night when I got back from the pub having had about 8 pints!

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Batfink

Also for a race car it will probably be more aerodynamic without a scoop.

If you want to mount it around there why not over the gearbox?

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welshpug

what tom said, its a proven route that works better than the top mounted interwarmer.

 

WRC subaru's no longer run Top mount intercoolers, they haven't done for some time, they site them sat at 45 degrees with two fans.

 

they retained the scoop to keep the turbo cool.

 

NEW%20SUBARU%202.jpg

 

later cars used the top scoop to feed a massive panel filter.

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opticaltrigger

Just a few more pics of the turbo as it's going in.

 

SD530823.jpg

SD530822.jpg

 

Ps. Note the cooler is now absent guys

Edited by opticaltrigger

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bales

Interesting place to mount the turbo....

 

Any special reason why? I assume the pipework is going to be lagged or your going to have one hell of a hot engine bay! Plus your hotside is literally touching the throttle body your going to be interwarming the air after intercooling it :lol:

 

Compressor side piping looks like it going to be fun to fit in round there aswell!!

 

Where is your downpipe going to run?

Edited by bales

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opticaltrigger
Interesting place to mount the turbo....

 

Any special reason why? I assume the pipework is going to be lagged or your going to have one hell of a hot engine bay! Plus your hotside is literally touching the throttle body your going to be interwarming the air after intercooling it :)

 

Compressor side piping looks like it going to be fun to fit in round there aswell!!

 

Where is your downpipe going to run?

 

Hi Bales,

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Well,The only reason that the turbo sits where it sits is because the idea is to take the tail pipe straight down and under and bring it out of the body work just in front of the N/S front wheel.All of the pipe work will definatley be lagged and several ally heat shields will be in various places also or as you said under bonnet tempratures would be excessive.

The picture does make it look closer to the throttle body than it actually is and the curl required at the intake side has a specific pice for that job,but your right though it is quite a turn,about 110 degrees ish.

In all this madness there is a plan.Honest.

 

Anyway I finally got the sequential ignition board prototype built and tested.All the software is now bug free and the hardware has also proved that it can take much more abuse than I thought also.

The three red LEDs are an indicator for each plug as it fires,but they run in real time so much past tickover speed and your eye cant follow as it's flashing to fast but it does give a good indication during cranking or tickover.

I'm gona try and get it all soldered into the car in the next few days so we can do some real world testing when we get it started up.

 

All the best

O.T.

 

SD530826.jpg

SD530824.jpg

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jackherer
All the software is now bug free

 

That is a dangerous claim to make for any software! :lol: Look at the way aeronautical and spaceflight software is developed and they still find the occasional bug.

 

How about 'no known bugs at this stage'? :)

 

It is good to see someone trying lots of different things, I hope it works out well for you.

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opticaltrigger
That is a dangerous claim to make for any software! :) Look at the way aeronautical and spaceflight software is developed and they still find the occasional bug.

 

How about 'no known bugs at this stage'? :)

 

It is good to see someone trying lots of different things, I hope it works out well for you.

 

Yes,I agree.The above is far more accurate.

I guess I just got carried away there.Real world testing may well show up some suprises yet.

 

In case anyone is interested I've put the source code in below for the firing section.I'ts in PBC and the MCU that it's loaded on is a PIC16F876.

 

 

Anyway thanks for the support

All the best

O.T.

 

'****************************************************************

'* Name : Sequential Ignition (SI V.1.2) *

'* Author : Opticaltrigger *

'* Notice : Copyright © 2010 *

'* : All Rights Reserved *

'* Date : 23/01/2010 *

'* Version : 1.2 *

'* Notes : To fire four ignition coils in the corect firing *

'* : order from distributor mounted opticaltriggers *

'****************************************************************

SYMBOL ADCON1 = $9f

SYMBOL TRISA = $85

symbol TRISB = $86

symbol PortA = 5

symbol PortB = 6

Init: poke ADCON1, 7 'set portA to digital I/O

POKE TRISA, %11111111 'set portA to all input

POKE TRISB, %00000000 'set portB to all output

loop: peek portA,B0 'check for hi/lo (5v) on single blade sensor

if Bit0 = 0 then chk1 'if lo (0v) jump to chk1

GOTO LOOP 'if hi go back & check again untill lo

chk1: peek portA,B0 'check for hi/lo (5v) on 4 blade sensor

if bit1 = 0 then fire1 'if lo (0v) jump to fire1

goto chk1 'if hi go back & check again untill lo

chk3: peek portA,B0 'check for hi/lo on next segment of 4 blade

if bit1 = 0 then fire3 'if lo jump to fire3

goto chk3 'if hi go back & check again untill lo

chk4: peek portA,B0

if Bit1 = 0 then fire4

goto chk4

chk2: peek portA,B0

IF BIT1 = 0 THEN fire2

goto chk2

fire1: poke PortB, %00000001 'switch on RB0 to live up IGNamp & coil No.1

peek portA,B0 'check for hi/lo signal on 4 blade sensor

if Bit1 = 0 then fire1 'if still lo keep IGNamp & coil No.1 live

poke PortB, %00000000 'if hi switch off RB0 & IGNamp & coil No.1

goto chk3 'jump to chk3 & wait for next lo signal

fire3: POKE pORTb, %00000010 'switch on RB1 to live up IGNamp & coil No.3

peek portA,B0 'check for hi/lo on 4 blade sensor again

if Bit1 = 0 then fire3 'if still lo keep IGNamp & coil No.3 live

POKE PortB, %00000000 'if hi switch off RB1 & IGNamp & coil No.3

goto chk4 'jump to chk4 & wait for next lo signal

fire4: poke PortB, %00000100

peek portA,B0

if Bit1 = 0 then fire4

poke PortB, %00000000

goto chk2

fire2: poke PortB, %00001000

peek portA,B0

if Bit1 = 0 then fire2

poke PortB, %00000000

goto loop

end

Edited by opticaltrigger

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wracing

hi,

 

Just some suggestions from looking through your code. you have no control over dwell, and from what I can see you are still using the dizzy advance? Or are these bits to come later?

 

Check your compiler output, there is a possibility you will end up with a memory hole due to the way you have jumped in and out of sub subroutines. But I may be wrong just a quick glance. To keep this nice and quick you may be better writing in assembly.

 

You would be better selecting a PIC with an input capture feature, capturing the time intervals between the incoming pulses(between two optical triggers), from this you can deduce a 720 degree engine position and fire the appropriate coil.

 

Once you have that feature established and working you would need to factor in an RPM Based advance curve, easily done with lookup tables.

 

To build on this you can make it a 3D system by add a larger lookup table to encompass a load (map or tps) calculation.

 

Im currently working on a complete solution (engine managment) using the PIC32 processor.

 

As far as your circuit is concerned, depending on what regulator you have used I would condition the power a little better, automotive is a nasty environment. it might be worth looking in to a Varistor. are the other IC's optoisolators??

 

Good work so far, very interested on the front mounted turbo.

 

Thanks

 

James

Edited by wracing

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opticaltrigger

James!,I'ts so good to be able to meet somone else that's into this.

The other stuff you mentioned,yes that is to follow as testing progreses and my code improves.

I have had it runing on the bench through the distributor which I have been driving with an electric motor and I havent found that I get any memory problems yet,it all seems to run very smooth really.

The voltage regulator is a TS2940 using a 220uF across the 12v,through a 1N4007 diode and a 100uF across the 5v.I'ts very stable on the scope.Whats your thoughts?

 

Yeh,I quite like that turbo there to,i'ts growing on me more and more.I know i'ts a long run but I think with proper lagging it will work well.But we will see?

 

Anyway back to the code stuff.I would really like to work with you on the ECU James and I would really like to hear some of your thoughts on the subject so please get in touch as it would be great to hear what stage of development your at with your project.I find that fueling calculations are much simpler to grasp than ignition especialy when you start to factor in retard for boost,although I have some ideas to use retard as a rev limiter,ie..start dumping off lead increasingly rapidly after a pre defined RPM point.I thought it would make a nice soft limit although EGTs might be a concern.Like to hear your thoughts on it if you get chance.

Oh,and yes they are optotriacs to carry the sine wave from the reluctor to each ignition amp.

 

All the best

O.T.

Edited by opticaltrigger

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wracing

Due the nature of the supply, I would have a 12v zener diode and a Metal Oxide Varistor to clamp the incoming 12v as you will find that there are many spikes on the power lines which could damage the voltage regulator.

 

If you have access to an oscilloscope have a look what is going on on your road cars 12v rails as you drive around, A/c,ignition, radio all a real pain in the arse !! :lol:

 

One point about the voltage regulator is that it doesn't have an automotive temperature range, not an issue if your planning this to be a one off, but you never know where your design is going to go.

 

Ignition and fuel calculations are easy its just the timing (sequential) that difficult. I'm my project I'm trying to integrate ecu, dash, wideband, ignition drivers and ouput control. Very much like the Bosch Motorsport ECUs but with a lower price point.

 

The reason I have chosen a bigger processor is for the accuracy (fully sequential ignition & fuel) and for features like DMA offloading the Processor for things like fetching data from the ports and USB communication, the CPU reads out of no wait state ram, very fast and allows fuelling math rather that lookup tables. ;)

 

James

Edited by wracing

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apinski

It looks just great, waiting for the final effect!

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opticaltrigger

Hi all,

Thought I would put up a few more pics of whats been going on the last couple of weeks.

I might get shot down in flames here for the intercooler location,after all that was discused about it but for lots of reasons were stuck with it there for now so were gona see I guess.But let me say I did take on board all that was said about heat soak and agreed with it but like I said were stuck with it there for now.

 

The exhaust pipework to the turbo had to be reworked some as it was to close to the distributor for comfort but the job was worth it as it did mean that an iritating tube discrepency got delt with at the same time.I managed to get somore wiring done earlier in the week and got the infared sensors on the distributor conected up to the new board and ignition amps.

 

Anyway pics.

All the best

O.T.

 

SD530843.jpg

SD530844.jpg

SD530845.jpg

SD530849.jpg

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opticaltrigger

After all that noise I made a few pages back about no bugs.I got one,well more of an oversight on my part realy.

I was wiring in the ignition amps and there was somthing buging me but I couldnt put my finger on it till much later on the way home.

The problem is that I had overlooked the fact that the four coils must all send a seperate signal to the standard fueling ECU whereas originaly there was only one coil with four pulses going to it.However if I were to just conect the wire from the ECU to each coil the negatives would all be conected and all four coils would fire at once.

So to overcome this I've come up with a patch if you like which uses four opto isolators to only conect the ECU wire to one coil at a time.See how far that gets us.

 

Ritch has been sloging away at it and has added a few more nice bits such as heat shields,bulkhead conectors for the fuel tank and pump wires,and various pipes and hoses.The four ignition coils are now in place and waiting for me to conect them up and theres a very short tail pipe in place although the flange has yet to be cut out properly.Once thats done all the pipe work for the turbo hot side can go off to the machine shop to be milled flat.The primary pipe to the turbine from the header is also going to have the flange reduced from 20mm thick to 15mm during the flatening just to give us a bit more clearence,but the down pipe flange can just be flatened off and left at around 20mm.

Seen some nice ally oil breather tanks on ebay to so that should make life a bit neater and easier when it comes to fiddly final plumbing,but by the time intercooler pipes and dump valves etc go in I will be amazed if we can use tools in there.

 

Anyway I hear from Ritch that he's going to have a go at geting involved in the bonnet scoop thiss weekend so we will see what that brings.You have to love that bodywork stuff and I dont.

 

Anyway some pictures and all the best

O.T.

 

SD530851.jpg

SD530858.jpg

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SD530854.jpg

SD530857.jpg

SD530856.jpg

SD530855.jpg

Edited by opticaltrigger

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